ya if you wouldnt mind taht'd be great!!

Thanks

-Yiddle

I see that a final apology is in order here.
While I posted a lot on the mens side, I honestly tried to restrict myself to threads where I thought my presence would add and not disturb.
If at any point I overstepped the bounderies of tznius, or made anyone uncomfortable by being on this side at all, I request mechila.

The girls and I will be watching your side closely.
Please keep it going for our sakes!

7up, I know you're busy...but anytime you have a chance, your presence on my thread would be welcome and appreciated...

And your help in the past (and from all the girls, too)...my appreciation is beyond words.

7Up wrote on 13 Jan 2010 16:43:


7Up,

You never overstepped any boundaries.  As for making anyone uncomfortable, there's nothing to apologize for - you were interacting well within the rules of the forum, like most other forum members.

I think the next generation of GYE users will wonder how the forum was ever "mixed" - much as we wonder about how many people in the previous generation or two seem to have violated certain open Halachos.  We forget that the earlier generations had their own set of Nisyonos (e.g. 2 generations ago, the Nisayon was Shemiras Shabbos), and that, having passed them, we are able to build on what they accomplished.

Difficult as it may be, this transition would have happened eventually, in any event, and is a genuine milestone in GYE's history.  Indeed, it's difficult to imagine GYE expanding to all different segments of Klal Yisrael if it continued to be mixed.  See my second and third letters on this page.

Kedusha...an interesting point. Makes us look at things in a different way...

Rage ATM wrote on 13 Jan 2010 18:44:


Thats a step in the right direction if I have ever seen one. Youre a Tzadik RATM! Keep it up.

-Yiddle

Kedusha wrote on 13 Jan 2010 17:07:




Kedusha, while you are right, this would have happened eventually, it is still a bitter pill to swallow for another reason:

Years ago, I was involved in an outreach org that was trying to interest assimilated college kids to come to an exciting Torah lecturer. They wanted to make a humorous flyer advertising the topic, like any good advert for a lecture posted on that campus. The head rabbi of the org said NO. you don't water-down torah. The truth of torah will sell itself. advertise in a way that will peak their interest but not make fun of the Torah or frumkeit. Example are those famous illustrations of an assimilated family around the seder table, or men in shul. They may be funny, even true to life, but they are NOT l'kovod Torah and Yiddishkeit, and that takes away from the chashivus in the eyes of everyone.

So, yeah, halachic guidelines need to be followed, and Tnius has to be adhered to, and the more that is accomplished, the more this heilige site and forum will attract the yeshivishe and chassisihe crowd who need it to join.

But what about the "fruma" of the Conservative, the USY'ers and the Modern Orthodox NCSY'ers out there. Will they get turned on or off by the separation? before, i thought this was a nice happy medium - and could help give access to our less affiliated brothers and sisters, who might be mekarev by these hip yet frum conversations between both genders. And more close to home, what brought all us yeshiva and sem and bais yaakov grads here in the first place, was our internet addiction and worse that made us feel "less" than frum. Are there any of us, men or women, who would NOT have joined if the forum was as separated as it is becoming? were we not slightly intrigued by the other side's problem?

just a few thoughts.

I think moving forward, just like we were thinking about ways to have something fitting younger, teenage addicts, we also should think of methods to make this accessible to all Jews, while not weakening the kedusha of this site for B'nei Torah. The biggest difficulty is getting people who are not used to tzniyus in speech and thought to obey the rules and avoid triggering comments. but then again, it's good to expect more of people, because they for the most part valiantly rise to the occasion. As long as they feel respected, feel they have a voice.

Viva La Revolution!!

steve, while i respect you tremendously (thanks for the mom-mail ), i disagree (yeah.... I am defending the separation... who woulda thunk?)

if this forum was seperate, i think i would have joined MUCH quicker. i don't think i would have gained near as much, but that's a seperate topic.

thing is, acting out in the more modern world is very accepted. chances are there are a lot of not so frum people who are addicted and don't realize, or do realize and don't particularly want to stop.
some may, that is true. but those that are less religious and really want to stop are much more likely to go to therapy themselves, or 12 step groups themselves. it's easier for a guy with a baseball cap to walk into an SA meeting. it's harder for a guy with a beard and payes. or a girl who's dressed tzanua.
for people who are already so active in the secular world, these things, while not "normal," would be considered ok behavior.
in the more yeshivish/chassidish world, these things are often very looked down upon, and word travels VERY fast. All one needs is for someone to see him walk into the therapist, and that's it. no more shidduchim for me...
i think GYE fills a nitch for a more religious crowd that they wouldn't be able to get anywhere else.

Habib,

I do respect your reasoning but you are already in the GYE loop. You know that there IS a woman's forum. How does a female have ANY chance of joining GYE when she thinks she is goin to be the only female?

-Yiddle

Yiddle2 wrote on 13 Jan 2010 19:34:
this was brought up on our side of the forum.
R' Guard said he would do something about that. maybe put an announcement somewhere.

habib613 wrote on 13 Jan 2010 19:28:




Habib, VERY WELL SAID.

I am gonna miss seeing your perspective. you have one amazing neshomah.

Thank you for ALL that you have taught me, and the other shnooks on this site.

I hope that Guard will continue to post your perpsective for us all to see, in the Chizuk emails and on the Main .ORG pages. You know what, HE'D BETTER!!! Besides the chizuk for US, it'll help all your ol' friends to at least get a glimpse of your progress. And that goes for all your co-horts over there.

And if I never get to see another Letakein poem, I'D THINK I'D CROAK!!

Is an announcement really going to do it....?? Come on lets be realistic here. No female is going to join without actually seeing what goes on in the woman's forum. Right now there arent that many woman on the forum to begin with so as it is females obviously don't feel its appropriate to join. Again I dont think an announcement is going to do it.

-Yiddle

habib613 wrote on 13 Jan 2010 19:37:


One day there is gonna hafta be availability on search engines, ads, etc., and the boys are gonna hafta behave themselves and not try to visit by pretending to be girls. (A-HEM... wonder where THAT idea came from.... who's Bruce?...) And that day hasta come soon, so you ladies can have more company. i'm just glad YOUZ GUYS are the founding fathers mothers of the forum. I just know you're gonna be EXCELLENT with the new recruits. It'll do you a world of good to be sponsor-like-thingies over there...

Steve wrote on 13 Jan 2010 19:39:
aww... thanks. We're lucky... at least we get to see how you guys are doing
Yiddle2 wrote on 13 Jan 2010 19:41:

haven't you ever signed up for something, realized you didn't want it, and then canceled? if the girl sees an announcement, and realizes she is addicted, she can sign up, take a look around, and then decide if she wants to stay or not.

Steve wrote on 13 Jan 2010 19:45:

yeah... we also thought of that idea way back when we couldn't read your forum at all.
but just so you know, whenever i see a newbie specialgroup, i'm planning on making her a welcome thread... so if bruce decides to do that, he's gonna find a "welcome brucetta" thread... replete with confetti and all that stuff... jk.
don't break R' Guard's trust. or else he might start screening the women to be sure they're really women. and THAT would really destroy any chance of new members.