Chaimy, This is a great question, and a somewhat sad one too.... but I do believe for most people, with a lustful history, the point is not of staying tempted but blocked. It requires some inner work, of at least being able to live with an urge and not get scared, or heal what's the underlying cause that's pushing you to engage in those stuff.

Great questions! - Are you an eved Hashem or Is this avoda sustainable? Are you running away from temptation or fighting it and getting stronger?

I think you are an awesome healthy person, fighting by working on what is the right thing. That is not called running away. That would be to ignore the issue and not do the work.

Someone showed me that the Dubno Magid talks about this in parshas chukas on adam ki yamus baohel, towards the beginning. Check it out!!

Be a fighter, build up your muscles!

I once heard from a gadol - as much as we try to be careful and guard our eyes, like you say taking off glasses, we are still surrounded by the yhr, so keep fighting. Keep the fighter/winner mentality, not the victim, running away.

It is not so much which way you are walking, but your mindset while you walk...

And 1 more thing - you can be dan lekaf zehut that your friends all have filters on their phones...

This sounds haughty as I write it so please forgive but for me it helps to center myself around Ratzon Hashem.

- Why do I have temptations others don't? I have an addictive personality...who created me that way? Hashem. So I accept who I am
- How do I hope to maintain over the long term? By taking pride in the moment. It's not a struggle it's an accomplishment where every second counts and then for me at least it's looking back on the mountain I've been climbing and seeing how far I've come and not wanting to lost it.
- Burn out. I think you recognize this but for me it's very important to recognize that it's Ratzon Hashem that I take care of my mood. When I have stress at work (which happens frequently) I try to ask myself whether Hashem wants me to be stressed about this and then also considering that He's the one truly orchestrating my parnassa it helps me get my mind out of the situation (also helps me justify taking a break).
- How do you deal with situations? That's where the mentors and partners come in. You were the one who reached out to the chevra and got Trouble to commit to a weekly conf call which I unfortunately missed. I think you know what to do there
- Whatsapp I would maybe say a bit differently from Vehkam. I think being that you've been around the block there is room to 'dip your toes in the water' and see if you can navigate/have changed at all or get out quickly imho

Thank you guys!

@Trouble, you wrote "the purpose of the 'fight' is to change how your insides work; that will either result in not having temptation at all or being tempted and overcoming even though you are not on the battlefield any longer." Does that mean that while eventually I will hopefully leave fighting mode but for now that's the way it's supposed to be in order to change my insides, or am I supposed to be working somehow on my insides?

@yid from monsey I am absolutely willing to say that I am powerless and I guess that's why i'm in fight or flight mode. I'm to scared that if I am in a situation that there will be temptation that I will fall. That's why i'm doing my bet to try to avoid these situations.

@Vehkam you wrote "It is not about letting your guard down it is about  gaining clarity about what you will and will not do and learning how to safeguard those commitments and values" What do you mean by learning how to safeguard those commitments and values?

@Sapy, I definetely want to learn how to live with the urge, I guess I don't feel that I'm there yet and just trying to avoid everything

@franklee It's interesting, I don't have any OCD tendencies in any other areas, I'm a pretty chilled guy as a whole. It's just with this whole lust thing, feeling that it controls me instead of me controlling it which is leading me to try to block it.

@kavey, that does not sound haughty at all. thanx for the chizuk

Lchaim Tovim wrote on 29 Jul 2022 14:19:

answering the question that was addressed to me: that depends on what method you decide to use. if you choose the 'fighting' method, then yes, you will be fighting and not actively working on your insides, as you might be doing a 'breath-holding' experiment. it does work for some. that is the theory behind the 'swearing off' concept and the '90-days' streak thingy. or you can actively work on your insides by implementing a program regiment, such as f2f, sa, therapy, meetings, mussar, 12 steps, mentors, book reading, etc.

Troub, is there a call? Did I miss that post?

f2f, I started already. Therapy/SA not gonna happen right now,  would definitely want to try without it. Mussar hasn't helped (although I do connect to R' Moshe weinberger's chaburas yosef hatzadik) Regarding the 12 steps, I started reading the white book but don't understand it practically. That is something that I would actively like to do. If you have any book recommendations, fire away.

Sapy wrote on 29 Jul 2022 14:51:

god-willing next week; if there are preferable dates and times from folks, you can write them here.

I think F2F has some great ideas, how did it work for you?

Trouble wrote on 29 Jul 2022 15:53:

For me personally, later in the afternoon is better, but hey, your the one extending yourself, what works best for you?

Sapy wrote on 29 Jul 2022 16:14:

I'm in the beginning.

​Shabbos is going to be my 50th day without masturbation,  I've only done this once before. I'm still counting the 90 days and beyond (I think psychologically it will help me)   but for the next 40 days I want to switch my approach to less fighting. I'm still going to keep everything off my phone and the gedorim the way I've been doing for these past 50 days because I don't want any more temptation than necessary.


To be honest this decision is giving me some anxiety but I feel like it's the right approach. One of the main reasons is, I'm going on vacation at the end of the summer and not a day has gone by since I started this 90 day journey that I haven't been obsessing about it, how difficult it's going to be and  what am I going to do etc. I've also unfortunately been reviewing some of the sight and feels of vacation last year (and i'm not talkin about the sights i saw with my family) brought to the forefront by my constant thinking about this years vacation  and this is not good.

I'm not really sure how to fight less but I would like to learn.

Sounds great, I'll try to chim in with a few ideas which has worked for me when I have a few minutes.

Can you clarify, to us or to yourself in case it is not already clear, what are you stressed about for vacation?

Lchaim Tovim wrote on 29 Jul 2022 14:19:

Hi. to answer your question directed at me.  I will answer from my perspective and from how this question relates to me.  In the beginning of my  struggle there were lots of triggers all over the place that I needed to avoid.  I was used to thinking from a highly sexualized perspective and there were many reminders of this wherever i went.  My reactions to provocative billboards in the streets was strong.  Passing an "adult establishment" while driving was uncomfortable and a source of anxiety.  I was very concerned about falling back and was not confident that my resolve to stay clean would last.  As time goes on, it is much more clear to me that this is not a temporary inspiration.  I know very well what i am comfortable looking at and what i need to avoid.  I still won't look at a provocative billboard and prefer to avoid passing any adult establishments, but they are no longer a source of anxiety.  I know that "i don't go there" and the fact that they are there is no longer a source of struggle for me.  (there was a time that driving into nyc at night meant that i would automatically have an internal battle which i usually lost... now i can drive into the city and not even think about it)

What changed is that i now have clarity about what i will or won't do.  I also have safeguards in place, which include reading every night, posting here etc... if ch'v i fell it would not go unaddressed.  I speak to various people from time to time and if i fall back they will know very quickly.  I have a therapist once a week and i need to be brutally honest.  otherwise i would be wasting $300 a week.  All of these add up to strong safeguards.

I also have some sort of filter on my phone. I don't test it.  I use my phone for the things that i need.  I will search using google for any and everything that i need but i don't use my phone for any sort of entertainment.

I have whatsapp and use it as a means of communication.  I am on several groups and see the statuses of my contacts.  I have absolutely no concern that having whatsapp will be a stumbling block for me.  I use it to communicate with my rav as well.  I won't join a group that has any potential for material that needs to be avoided.  I am clear on what is acceptable and i stay within those boundaries.  If i was younger and had friends that were sharing inappropriate material then i would have to reconsider if/how i could use the app.  Once you have the confidence and clarity of what you are willing to look at, you should be able to make good decisions on whether or not to use the app anymore.  Since it has been a source of struggle in the past you will obviously have to change how you use it.  You will also want to wait until you are VERY clear and VERY confident that it is no longer a source of struggle.  This could take a long time but does not need to be forever.

i hope this answers your question.

best regards,
vehkam

I've spent the past couple of days thinking reflecting  and trying to process everything.

From the time I was a kid even before puberty, I was extremely sexual. Everywhere I went there were triggers.

​I guess the reason why I took such an extreme fighting approach was that I was trying to combat my hyper-sexuality. Trying to avoid any situation where I might be triggered. Trying to avoid being tempted. Trying to fight my feelings.

I'm not going to be able to go through the rest of my life not seeing anything I shouldn't though obviously  there are certain places I shouldn't be going both in real life and virtually.

I think I have to accept the fact that I feel certain desires and learn how to deal with my feelings. It's not so much what I feel but how I deal with what I feel. If I saw something and now want to take a second look or more, I have to learn to not take that next step. If i did take another look, I don't have to think about it afterwards and fantasize or relive what I saw. If I'm turned on, that's ok, let those feelings wash over me, I don't need to take it to the next step.

Does what i'm saying make any sense?

If I can do this successfully (though I'm not sure exactly how), I hopefully won't get into the much bigger problems and red lines.

​The other night I went into bed with my wife and got extremely turned on but I knew nothing was happening. Instead of having sex with myself, I tried reading the white book. i couldn't concentrate so I just lay there telling myself, it's ok to feel this way, it will pass, trying to envision waves washing over me and eventually it did.