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Re: spice 16 Sep 2024 16:08 #421618

  • chosemyshem
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thompson wrote on 16 Sep 2024 15:39:

chaimoigen wrote on 16 Sep 2024 14:56:
I did. Bravo. 
Madame Thénardier might approve. 

I personally prefer the book to the adaptation with songs.
I actually got a lot out of it, especially Jean Valjean. 

Fantine made a deep impression, too. Sometimes we don’t have any good choices, and that stinks. But something remains of the heartbreaking effort, I think. 

Never liked Maurius that much, or even Cossette. 

Interesting fact- Rav Aryeh Levine once did with a guest exactlywhat the Bishop did with 24601 - he told the police that he had given all of his (stolen) valuables as a gift to his erstwhile houseguest. And the guy was Chozer Biteshuva.

The problem for me with Fantine is that, at times, I identify too deeply with her plight.
There are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather.

Another way to frame it would be that Fantine characterizes Chesed, Javert symbolizes Gevurah, and Valjean, Tiferes.
Either extreme isn't healthy. We have to live on the golden path.

Another interesting fact about Rav Aryeh Levin - he liked chocolate pudding. (What? He said so himself.)

Since we're in spicy land. Rav Lichtenstein would on occasion give mussar shuirim in Gush based on e.g. Robert Frost poems. My understanding is that was not the mehalach of Rav Y.B. Soleveitchik, who would use the vocabulary and ideas of philosophy to illustrate Torah ideas, but not as a source. Culture is a tool that can be used - but Torah it is not.

That being said, there are tropes that echo so deeply in the human condition that it's hard to see them as anything but an echo of the framework of creation itself. 

It says something sad about our relationship and conception with Rabbis that we would be surprised they enjoy a certain food (though the chocolate pudding story is great).

Re: spice 16 Sep 2024 18:23 #421637

  • cande
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truthaintflashy wrote on 16 Sep 2024 15:18:
OK with 19 unread applies, I'd say this is mission accomplished.  

Till next time...

was really FUN, mamish a BLAST ty!

Re: spice 17 Sep 2024 13:34 #421692

chosemyshem wrote on 16 Sep 2024 02:36:
And let me iterate and reiterate my agreement with this premise. Man is doomed. Born weighed down with the burden of an Original Sin he cannto possibly clean he cannot escape the inevitability of Hell without the grace of. Oh wait, wrong forum. Sorry. Let me try again.

My mind can't get off this mystery...why is he on that other forum?  Is he an undercover missionary?  Working for Yad L'achim or the equivalent in whatever country he is?  Perhaps even a secret Frankist, playing with all sides of the world of religion to achieve a sinister goal, something that will finally force G-d out of the woodwork?

Seems like an interesting premise for the next topic in this series.
It took a lot of trying, succeeding, failing, succeeding some more, failing some more, finding "substitute addictions", letting go of them, finding them again, losing my mind a couple of times, etc. etc. b''h I'm alive and happy, but I still have my work cut out for me.

Re: spice 17 Sep 2024 13:54 #421699

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truthaintflashy wrote on 17 Sep 2024 13:34:

chosemyshem wrote on 16 Sep 2024 02:36:
And let me iterate and reiterate my agreement with this premise. Man is doomed. Born weighed down with the burden of an Original Sin he cannto possibly clean he cannot escape the inevitability of Hell without the grace of. Oh wait, wrong forum. Sorry. Let me try again.

My mind can't get off this mystery...why is he on that other forum?  Is he an undercover missionary?  Working for Yad L'achim or the equivalent in whatever country he is?  Perhaps even a secret Frankist, playing with all sides of the world of religion to achieve a sinister goal, something that will finally force G-d out of the woodwork?

Seems like an interesting premise for the next topic in this series.

I've come to the tragic realization that I would've made an excellent monk. Perhaps a Benedictine. I don't think I could swing it as a Trappist though that beer is tempting. 

Secret Frankist is a strong second option though.

Re: spice 17 Sep 2024 14:01 #421700

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chosemyshem wrote on 17 Sep 2024 13:54:

truthaintflashy wrote on 17 Sep 2024 13:34:

chosemyshem wrote on 16 Sep 2024 02:36:
And let me iterate and reiterate my agreement with this premise. Man is doomed. Born weighed down with the burden of an Original Sin he cannto possibly clean he cannot escape the inevitability of Hell without the grace of. Oh wait, wrong forum. Sorry. Let me try again.

My mind can't get off this mystery...why is he on that other forum?  Is he an undercover missionary?  Working for Yad L'achim or the equivalent in whatever country he is?  Perhaps even a secret Frankist, playing with all sides of the world of religion to achieve a sinister goal, something that will finally force G-d out of the woodwork?

Seems like an interesting premise for the next topic in this series.

I've come to the tragic realization that I would've made an excellent monk. Perhaps a Benedictine. I don't think I could swing it as a Trappist though that beer is tempting. 

Secret Frankist is a strong second option though.

Abstinence and all?
May you slide down the banister of happiness and get many splinters of success up your career

Feel free to send me an owl, a howler, or even a Crumple-Horned Snorkack to Iamredfaced@gmail.com


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Re: spice 17 Sep 2024 14:42 #421703

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chosemyshem wrote on 16 Sep 2024 16:08:

thompson wrote on 16 Sep 2024 15:39:

chaimoigen wrote on 16 Sep 2024 14:56:
I did. Bravo. 
Madame Thénardier might approve. 

I personally prefer the book to the adaptation with songs.
I actually got a lot out of it, especially Jean Valjean. 

Fantine made a deep impression, too. Sometimes we don’t have any good choices, and that stinks. But something remains of the heartbreaking effort, I think. 

Never liked Maurius that much, or even Cossette. 

Interesting fact- Rav Aryeh Levine once did with a guest exactlywhat the Bishop did with 24601 - he told the police that he had given all of his (stolen) valuables as a gift to his erstwhile houseguest. And the guy was Chozer Biteshuva.

The problem for me with Fantine is that, at times, I identify too deeply with her plight.
There are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather.

Another way to frame it would be that Fantine characterizes Chesed, Javert symbolizes Gevurah, and Valjean, Tiferes.
Either extreme isn't healthy. We have to live on the golden path.

Another interesting fact about Rav Aryeh Levin - he liked chocolate pudding. (What? He said so himself.)

Since we're in spicy land. Rav Lichtenstein would on occasion give mussar shuirim in Gush based on e.g. Robert Frost poems. My understanding is that was not the mehalach of Rav Y.B. Soleveitchik, who would use the vocabulary and ideas of philosophy to illustrate Torah ideas, but not as a source. Culture is a tool that can be used - but Torah it is not.

That being said, there are tropes that echo so deeply in the human condition that it's hard to see them as anything but an echo of the framework of creation itself. 



Since I’m in spicy land and not giving a Shiur with my beard I’ll use this, my favorite Frost quote, to illustrate the truth of your truth. Chochma Bagoyim Taamin

But yield who will to their separation,
My object in living is to unite
My avocation and my vocation
As my two eyes make one in sight.
Only where love and need are one,
And the work is play for mortal stakes,
Is the deed ever really done
For Heaven and the future's sakes.

      — Robert Frost
  Two Tramps Out Of The Mud


Mr. T, perhaps thou would agree that he is talking about the need to synthesize Ahava and Yirah, into a life in which the Tiferes is expressed in the stereoscopic vision expressed by two eyes, right and left, seeing in unison. See Arizal for further commentary . 

Here’s where I get up, and carve the word “Fate” into the wall of my office, as the bleakness is threatening again…
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com
Last Edit: 17 Sep 2024 14:49 by chaimoigen.

Re: spice 17 Sep 2024 15:23 #421706

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chaimoigen wrote on 17 Sep 2024 14:42:



Since I’m in spicy land and not giving a Shiur with my beard I’ll use this, my favorite Frost quote, to illustrate the truth of your truth. Chochma Bagoyim Taamin

But yield who will to their separation,
My object in living is to unite
My avocation and my vocation
As my two eyes make one in sight.
Only where love and need are one,
And the work is play for mortal stakes,
Is the deed ever really done
For Heaven and the future's sakes.

      — Robert Frost
  Two Tramps Out Of The Mud


Here’s where I get up, and carve the word “Fate” into the wall of my office, as the bleakness is threatening again…

So maybe you'll enjoy the Rav Lichtenstein shuir. Suprisingly, I found a pdf online.

But bleakness is a self-fulfilling prophecy. poets.org/poem/fear-0

Re: spice 19 Sep 2024 16:16 #421907

  • thompson
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chosemyshem wrote on 17 Sep 2024 13:54:
I've come to the tragic realization that I would've made an excellent monk. Perhaps a Benedictine. I don't think I could swing it as a Trappist though that beer is tempting. 

Secret Frankist is a strong second option though.

Maybe beomce a counselor in Camp Monk Munk first, and see where that leads you.

Re: spice 19 Sep 2024 16:18 #421908

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chaimoigen wrote on 17 Sep 2024 14:42:

chosemyshem wrote on 16 Sep 2024 16:08:

thompson wrote on 16 Sep 2024 15:39:

chaimoigen wrote on 16 Sep 2024 14:56:
I did. Bravo. 
Madame Thénardier might approve. 

I personally prefer the book to the adaptation with songs.
I actually got a lot out of it, especially Jean Valjean. 

Fantine made a deep impression, too. Sometimes we don’t have any good choices, and that stinks. But something remains of the heartbreaking effort, I think. 

Never liked Maurius that much, or even Cossette. 

Interesting fact- Rav Aryeh Levine once did with a guest exactlywhat the Bishop did with 24601 - he told the police that he had given all of his (stolen) valuables as a gift to his erstwhile houseguest. And the guy was Chozer Biteshuva.

The problem for me with Fantine is that, at times, I identify too deeply with her plight.
There are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather.

Another way to frame it would be that Fantine characterizes Chesed, Javert symbolizes Gevurah, and Valjean, Tiferes.
Either extreme isn't healthy. We have to live on the golden path.

Another interesting fact about Rav Aryeh Levin - he liked chocolate pudding. (What? He said so himself.)

Since we're in spicy land. Rav Lichtenstein would on occasion give mussar shuirim in Gush based on e.g. Robert Frost poems. My understanding is that was not the mehalach of Rav Y.B. Soleveitchik, who would use the vocabulary and ideas of philosophy to illustrate Torah ideas, but not as a source. Culture is a tool that can be used - but Torah it is not.

That being said, there are tropes that echo so deeply in the human condition that it's hard to see them as anything but an echo of the framework of creation itself. 




Since I’m in spicy land and not giving a Shiur with my beard I’ll use this, my favorite Frost quote, to illustrate the truth of your truth. Chochma Bagoyim Taamin

But yield who will to their separation,
My object in living is to unite
My avocation and my vocation
As my two eyes make one in sight.
Only where love and need are one,
And the work is play for mortal stakes,
Is the deed ever really done
For Heaven and the future's sakes.

      — Robert Frost
  Two Tramps Out Of The Mud


Mr. T, perhaps thou would agree that he is talking about the need to synthesize Ahava and Yirah, into a life in which the Tiferes is expressed in the stereoscopic vision expressed by two eyes, right and left, seeing in unison. See Arizal for further commentary . 

Here’s where I get up, and carve the word “Fate” into the wall of my office, as the bleakness is threatening again…

Based on previous posts, I thought you had access to The Quill.....
No need to carve anything into your wall
May you slide down the banister of happiness and get many splinters of success up your career

Feel free to send me an owl, a howler, or even a Crumple-Horned Snorkack to Iamredfaced@gmail.com


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