So firstly, I would just like to say, our past actions define us forever.  What are we, if not the sum of our past choices?  It follows that someone who's been involved with smut is forever disgusting, even if they try to hide it with firm resolutions to "do better", even if they succeed...In the famous words of Javert, "Once a thief, forever a thief!"

Logically such people belong in a cell, alone.  Only isolation will give someone the right perspective on these kinds of mistakes, where they can properly torture themselves before they pass on and are punished for their irredeemable mistakes.

So how can we prevent people from stepping into the abyss?

It's known that people react more readily to fear incentives than to positive incentives.  We need to encourage a culture of ratting and publicly humiliating anyone who falls out of line.  Thus, people will be afraid of getting caught, and certainly that will prevent them from acting out.

truthaintflashy wrote on 14 Sep 2024 18:41:

Not sure where your getting your info, we believe in the power of teshuva and sins are not irredeemable, obviously not being pogeia in javerts honour chas vesholom. Fundamentally we are good inside. Being shlepped down by our struggles doesn't define us forever. On the contrary, mistakes are there to be fixed that's why זדונות נעשים לו כזכויות. 

If you feel that we are the sum of our past choices (arguable), then doing tshuva is also another choice. It therefor should affect the person's sum total as he is now someone who regrets his past choices. 

About your last point, in previous generations that definitely was part of the mehalech and it probably was relatively effective. But it doesn't really work in our time. This seems to be general feeling among todays mashgichim / mentors. When acting out is an overly accessible option then fear mongering and negative associations with falling don't work, they just cause people to repeat their behaviour as a self soothing tactic. 

Inspector Javert was a guy described as one whose life was one "of privations, isolation, self-denial, and chastity—never any amusement”. Not my kind of guy. 

Jean Valjean, on the other hand, is someone I identify with more. (K’mat as much as Claude Frollo….)

truthaintflashy wrote on 14 Sep 2024 18:41:

Bravo!! This stuff sounds like “YKW porn”. 

youknowwho wrote on 15 Sep 2024 02:29:

What do YOU know about spice?

(Wow, what have I gotten myself into)
neshomo kedosha wrote on 14 Sep 2024 23:45:

See Rambam Hilchot Teshuva chapter 4  that there are irredeemable sins; since the Rambam says it, there's no need to look in more modern sources that might clarify this as not absolute.


Let's talk a little about the brain.  Now, I'm sure you know that young children do ignorant things sometimes.  Did you know that those experiences define their emotional experience of life throughout adulthood?  This goes back to that "fundamentally we are good inside" business....really?  You think so?  Does your inner child agree?  Or does he seem to disagree, no matter how many times you repeat it to him and even if he starts to play along?

But back to the point.  The brain becomes increasingly hard to influence with age.  The brain is the seat of the neshama, and if it's got stains and cracks and tears, those aren't going away without some concerted effort.  Sure, there might be outliers here and there who manage to change themselves for the better in old age, but to that I say בטלה דעתו אצל כל אדם.

(no that doesn't fit, but it's not about being right, it's about winning.  Right?)


If even fear and embarrassment won't stop people, shouldn't we just give up on them?

Actually, with sins of pgam habrit, I read in likutei eitzot (machloket & meriva 1) that the tzaddikim make a show for the sinner as if they're disagreeing and arguing among themselves...he says that, properly speaking, someone who has blemished the drops of his brain should become lost completely and lose out on real life.  (no need to look this up and find the part I'm omitting)

Uh, am I the only guy who’s hearing satire? I mean, this is JHF, no?

tzitzis dude wrote on 15 Sep 2024 15:41:

Not paying for therapy needed after reading this thread

(but if someone's muddled feel free to PM and I'll try to straighten things)

truthaintflashy wrote on 14 Sep 2024 18:41:

I struggled for 35 years.  I was only able to break free  when I shed myself of these mistaken beliefs.  You can dm me if you want to know why they are wrong.

Friends, there is a reason this thread is in the just having fun section!!!!! Laugh and move on to a different thread...

OK! got it ty!
 lets just die now, and go to HELL,
see ya there.
safe trip.

eerie wrote on 15 Sep 2024 17:42:

Could it be that we’re getting trolled?

truthaintflashy wrote on 15 Sep 2024 14:48:

I'm gonna have to call you on that one. The Rambam after talking about the worst sins one can commit states clearly that teshuva is possible:

  רמב"ם הלכות תשובה פ"ג הלכה יד': בד"א שכל אחד מאלו אין לו חלק לעולם הבא בשמת בלא תשובה אבל אם שב מרשעו ומת והוא בעל תשובה הרי זה מבני העולם הבא. שאין לך דבר שעומד בפני התשובה. אפילו כפר בעיקר כל ימיו ובאחרונה שב יש לו חלק

And your link about אין הקב"ה מספיק בידו לעשות תשובה. Although it sounds like its over for that guy, the Rambam writes  at the end that nothing ever stands in the way of teshuva:

פרק ד' הלכה ו': כל אלו הדברים וכיוצא בהן אף על פי שמעכבין את התשובה אינן מונעין את התשובה אלא אם עשה אדם תשובה מהן הרי זה בעל תשובה ויש לו חלק לעולם הבא.



Sounds pretty depressing to me. But if it helps you then sure go for it. I generally go with the conventional wisdom that nothing is beyond repair. 

And thanks for the little heoros in brackets, didn't notice them the first time I read your post, it sure made things so much more exciting

tzitzis dude wrote on 15 Sep 2024 23:51:

I dunno, he sounds like a very serious troll 

Wingardium Leviosa!