Could I put forward a slightly different version of this question:

HOW WOULD YOU REACT TO BEING RECOGNIZED BY YOUR OWN SON, OR TO RECOGNIZE YOUR OWN SON?

I see several teens on this Forum now. Many of them "young enough to be my son." The idea that my own son would be in a parsha to join a site like this is... terrible to consider. The idea that he'd wander here and identify ME and read everything that I'VE posted is... even more devastating.

So for all my brave talk about openness and willingness to be vulnerable and everything else... I'm not sure what I'd think if the kid online was my son. Just as bad, what if he lived down the block, or went to school with my own kid, or was the son of my own buddy, or whatever.

How would YOU feel? What would YOU do?

PS: And no, "nowhere_to_turn," I am not from Monsey so don't panic that it's me. [Although I do think the advise you got about fuzzy-ing up your town, age, etc is not a bad idea. Eight years from now, and clean for many years IYH, you'll forget you were once here... but the shadchan & future inlaws might not.]

PS: Oh, and I forgot to add:  what if you were the SON and discovered by your father who was ALSO a member?  Hmmnn.

Briut wrote on 10 May 2010 16:13:


Briut, how do "would" feel, what "would" you do? huh?  :-[  
and if i found that my father was on here i would probably feel a little bit of relief because i could talk to him about this stuff and we could come to certain understandings about stuff. for him it would probably be way less pleasant to #1 think that his son is such knows about such personal stuff probably would not be comestible.

CA: Well, first, I think if it was an actual father / son situation, it wouldn't be as poshut as anyone might think. So many emotions: fear, resentment, embarrassment, you name it. So I'm not so sure it would be so simple as a "Kodak moment" for either of them.

As to it being a neighbor or something, I'm not sure but I think the factor of being anonymous on this site might be called into question. At least in my town, I could probably decipher any Yid in a couple of phone calls or emails. It wouldn't take much (whether intentional or accidental) for someone to give away one too many detail and blow their cover. Plus, there's always the certainty of running into them someplace.

I don't think I was thinking of any specific case    as much as seeing how the younger ones (no offense intended) seem to leave their hometown, their age, their yeshiva status, and enough detail that anyone might suspect them. Even their own father if he were ever to arrive here. If my father ztl or wife amush or anyone near to me saw my whole thread, they'd know who I was in an Out-of-Town-Minute.

Just a thought, particularly for the more youthful ones, as we work in this supposed anonymity. Oh, wait: is that your father over there in the newbie corner right now  ;D ?

I once sponsored a son of a guy who I was friends with in SA for about ten years. I never brought up to either of them that I knew both of them until they both attended the same meeting once. Neither seemed surprised. It was a little weird, but funny.

neither one? what did they say to each other?

Sorry to (rain) on your parade, Reb Dov, or to shock any of you others, but:

I'd bet you 'dollars to donuts' that if two relatives meet at SA for the first time and aren't surprised... they've been doing 'something' together in the past. Like watching stuff or going somewhere. Maybe even doing 'things' WITH each other. With or without consent. In a pattern that may go back even more generations.

I think that's a little different than figuring out it's your father (or son) who just showed up on our Introduce Yourself thread.

Or as RAGE might say, "Come to the dark side, Luke."

So, Rebbe Dov, sponsor of many, am I completely off-base?

There's a parade? Is there a donut stuck in your stethoscope, Briut?

OK, I never said that they had no idea they were both lust addicts, just that neither knew that they shared a very close friend. It was kind of funny, and a good exercise for me in shutting up. And I need that a lot, obviously.

And I am not the sponsor of many - but I do show off, at times. It's a problem. If you stick around in any fellowship long enough, anyone will sponsor a number of people...

:-*

dov wrote on 11 May 2010 15:32:


No, no, Dov, I didn't mean that each was unaware that he, himself, was a lust addict.

I meant that neither one was aware that the OTHER one was a self-declared lust addict and seeking help.

And yes, I DO mean to refer to the likelihood that addiction patterns go along with abuse patterns, which go along with multi-generational abuse patterns, on and on in a cycle. So if father and son are both addicts, I start to wonder. I wonder if the father was taking the son to strip joints or waking him up in the middle of the night for abuse or whatever, ... anyhow, I'd be surprised if the truth of the other's addiction was completely new information.

THAT is where I could use the Reb's sage advice, experience, etc.  Whaddya think?

If I may bud in for just a second,
I don't think it's so crazy for them to figure it out.
First of all, if someone is doing enough work on this,
they might come to realize certain things about people around them
and the fact that this kind of stuff happens.
Leading to an overall non-wow effect when learning that someone else is dealing...
For instance, here on this forum there are rabbis, fathers, sons, lawyers, etc...
Have we ever spoken about statistics? I think we have discussed that this is a big problem
and unfortunately has reached many members of our community.
Honestly, I'd be surprised with people who tell me they have never struggled with hotza'as zera l'vatala.
And all this being said, using the same computer, noticing certain late night habits, and other pointers,
may not always be a clear give away, but may lead to a non-surprising meeting at SA.

Briut wrote on 11 May 2010 16:44:


Well, it just so happens that in this case, the son never saw/did schmutz by his father. But he did grow up in a crazy-house and his father admits the same (about his own childhood and this son's). There was not much of a father for this kid (now around 30) and his parents were frequently fighting or angry with each other.

I heard that the Steipeler used to say the two main ingredients for having good kids are sholom bayis and davening. My wife and I remind each other of this every now and then. We know that how our kids turn out is really out of our hands, but at least these two things we can give them: sholom bayis (knowing the love between their parents) and knowing our love for them (davening and doing other stuff for them). 

Dov, you'll know this better than I would. And I know it's just my curiosity here and probably not anything toeles. Even so...

Are you saying that lust disorders can pass from generation to generation, without any physical contact within the family as either a cause or an effect of the disorder?  I had figured that once this stuff hit all around a family for over a generation, somebody was going to touch somebody, someplace, sometime.

I don't know if I'm suggesting that addictions often stem from abuse (I don't think so) or that abuse often stems from addictions (maybe so, but I'm still skeptical). In any case, though, I'm wondering if there's a connection.

You probably knew these guys' sex lives better than even they themselves. So, whaddya say?

Actually, I knew a bunch about one of those guys' (the son) sex lives, but not much of the other one's (the pop, who I knew for much longer). Still, I'm not convinces that it matters. The stats about the disorder is probably best described by experts and not by addicts themselves (like me).  Nevertheless, I know of only a few addicts who described incestuous contact in their history. Far more folks talk a lot of growing up in a crazy-house, or under conditions that were either too demanding or indifferent. Balance is apparently an important thing to kids.

And with that, after finishing looking at the other three posts on my list, off I go to supper with the kiddies!

Briut wrote on 10 May 2010 16:55:


And another twist to these questions - What if you discovered that the guy your daughter is dating is on GYE ? Would that bother you ? (Let's assume that he'll never associate you with your postings.)

I ask because I'm dating and sometimes wonder what others would think of me if they knew.

commando wrote on 11 May 2010 22:24:

Funny question. I have teenaged daughters. And frankly, I'm not naive enough to think boys are all 'perfect.' I just want to have an honest peek at what kind of they're facing in life. Of all the possibilities, being an addict IN TREATMENT AND CLEAN might not be the worst of the options. An addict IN DENIAL AND ACTING OUT would get me to grab the shotgun.

And if I had to choose between this addiction or some other like a drinking problem, I don't know.  Of course, the bottom line is that this is my DAUGHTER'S ISSUE and not mine. But I'm hoping that she will a) give me a veto or even a vote; and b) know the truth (whole truth; nuthin' but truth SHMG) before she commits.

But all this is because I've got my own lust stuff going on. For folks who think they're "clean" of this, you might get a more self-righteous answer. By definition, though, you won't find any of them here so your sampling is skewed.