Can someone please tell me what is this "learning" that we all talk about?!
Is it deep Iyun- in complete sh'kius? or is it snoozing over daf yomi? Is it musar with s'fosayim dolkos? or hearing a torah tape in the car whiel you munch a candy on you rway to work?
And the most known chiluk (by r' Y . Salanter) is between learning in general & learning specifically about the topic you were nich'shal in.
From my humble experience, serious musar seder DID help me stay sober for a long while.
I agree that addicition is like a disease & needs more than just Torah, but when Torah is learnt properly it sure helps.

and mazal tov to you, DY, fo your one week- many happy returns

kevin,
I know that my goal here is not to stay sober. My goal is to fix all the issues that led me down this path. Learning Torah might help you to stay sober (white knuckle sobriety), but it will probably not change the fundamental problems and disfunction that brought you to this place. Sobriety is nice, but it's simply not going to do much for us.

Learning iyun is cerainly better for those that enjoy it, because it fills ur mind even when not learning. But b'kius is also good if learnt with a geshmak chazering alot, living with it, even dreaming about it. Either way t doesn't help after the taivoh comes, it only prevents the taivoh from coming.

hi KH & interV,
There are two pieces of gemara about how the yetzer hora can be conquered by Torah. One in Kidushin and one in Brachos.
To cut a long story short, Torah can help you as an ongoing way of life (Brachos 5A) , and also at times of crisis ("im poga becho menuvol ze"-Kidushin)
I agree with you that the problems are deeper and at times need MORE than learning,
It is true that just "staying out of trouble, and sobre" is not enough. we have to deal with the roots of the problem, and I think our issue is escapism; we have to analyze what is it that we escape from.
However, on some level, learning- one way or another- is always some type of help.

wishing us all a gr8888888888 and clean week!
(and yes, I agree that b'kius can be geshmak as well...)

KevinP, "Im puga" Is only at the beginning of the interaction, not once you've got an addiction or ur in the taive knee deep ( or thigh deep...) either way, this addiction should be classified as a "choli" as seen from the gemara sanhedrin (the doctors said he'll die, no taivah ever killed a person) Im puga does not mean "if u got sick"...

very true, Interveltnik, and that is why we have our amazing 90 days porgram, support groups, etc. because it is already a disease.
However, I still think (and feel very strongly) that Torah imbues kedusha at any stage. it is NOT the only solution, but it definitely plays a positive role.

The same amud of Gemara (Kiddushin 30:) that says בראתי יצר הרע בראתי תורה תבלין also states יצרו של אדם מתגבר עליו בכל יום ומבקש להמיתו ואלמלא הקב"ה עוזר לו יכול לו.
So it seems pretty clear that its all are true.

interveltnik wrote on 20 May 2012 13:11:


Granted, a "choli" - but Chazal also teach us that for every kind of choli, Torah can be used as a cure. See the following Gemara in Eruvin 54a:

חש בראשו יעסוק בתורה שנאמר כי לוית חן הם לראשך
חש בגרונו יעסוק בתורה שנאמר וענקים לגרגרותיך
חש במעיו יעסוק בתורה שנאמר רפאות תהי לשרך
חש בעצמותיו יעסוק בתורה שנאמר ושקוי לעצמותיך
חש בכל גופו יעסוק בתורה שנאמר ולכל בשרו מרפא

אמר רב יהודה בר' חייא בא וראה שלא כמדת הקב"ה מדת בשר ודם מדת בשר ודם
אדם נותן סם לחבירו לזה יפה ולזה קשה
אבל הקב"ה אינו כן נתן תורה לישראל סם חיים לכל גופו
שנאמר ולכל בשרו מרפא

Bottom line: Toira iz dee beste s'choira.

MT