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TOPIC: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 11285 Views

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 17 Apr 2023 19:55 #394576

  • Bennyh
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Hi yitz23 welcome to the forum!! Sounds like you're dealing with a heaping plate of challenges all at once layered one on top of the other. Happy to hear that you're working through your issues in therapy.

I think your anger at frank.lee is a bit misplaced. Here on this forum we're accustomed to hearing a very wide range of sexual interests. What one person finds normal, another might find horrifying and abhorrent. If you hang around here a bit, you'll see what I mean...

So I believe he was being nonjudgemental and throwing it out in a causal way, because who knows. I'll let him speak for himself but that's how I read it.

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 17 Apr 2023 20:10 #394577

  • m111
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yitz23 wrote on 17 Apr 2023 19:31:
Really? I love Chabad's music as well, but it can't seriously give you the emotional release provided by masturbating, can it?

There is enjoying music, and then there is experiencing music. Closing your eyes, relaxing, and letting the melody take you over, let it beat in your heart, flow through your arteries, and move through your soul.
Does anyone else have experience with this?
When 2 yidden get together, it is two nefesh elokis (godly souls) against one nefesh hebehamis (animal soul)
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Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 17 Apr 2023 21:06 #394579

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Bennyh wrote on 17 Apr 2023 19:55:
Hi yitz23 welcome to the forum!! Sounds like you're dealing with a heaping plate of challenges all at once layered one on top of the other. Happy to hear that you're working through your issues in therapy.

I think your anger at frank.lee is a bit misplaced. Here on this forum we're accustomed to hearing a very wide range of sexual interests. What one person finds normal, another might find horrifying and abhorrent. If you hang around here a bit, you'll see what I mean...

So I believe he was being nonjudgemental and throwing it out in a causal way, because who knows. I'll let him speak for himself but that's how I read it.

Thank you very much for you response. Someone else PMed me about this as well.

I realize you are right and the nature of this forum is that things get raised that we are not used to. That gufa is what it means to have a non-judgemental space - to be able to talk about different things without putting down the speaker.

I apologize, frank.lee for getting angry at you. Thank you for being the first one to respond on my thread, and thank you for your insight and your chizzuk. I hope you continue.

PS It was good that I got to express how much pain I have surrounding this topic, even though I shouldn't have directed my anger toward frank.lee.

Every hand's a winner
and every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for
is to die in your sleep
                      -Kenny Rogers,
The Gambler

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 17 Apr 2023 21:15 #394582

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m111 wrote on 17 Apr 2023 20:10:

yitz23 wrote on 17 Apr 2023 19:31:
Really? I love Chabad's music as well, but it can't seriously give you the emotional release provided by masturbating, can it?

There is enjoying music, and then there is experiencing music. Closing your eyes, relaxing, and letting the melody take you over, let it beat in your heart, flow through your arteries, and move through your soul.
Does anyone else have experience with this?

Yes. Closing your eyes and experiencing a good piece of music is a real thing. I also love the Chabad centennial! I have the classical channel music on in my car a lot. And I love how you use it as a substitute! 

​But to yitz's point, you need to have some discipline to say "I'm not going to masturbate now even though it's easy and very pleasurable. Instead, I'm going to listen to a piece of music."

When the fire is burning for A, it's hard sometimes to shift your focus to B instead.

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 17 Apr 2023 21:42 #394588

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Hi Yitz23 - I am sorry, I was not clear. You are right to be indignant based on how my words sounded. Thanks for your appreciation and apology.

I will try to clarify what I mean - that theoretically, your mother may just love you as a mother, and in your head it gets interpreted the wrong way. Not because you have sick fantasies, but because the yetzer hara is tormenting you with ideas in your head. I can not even imagine how hard it can be to deal with such a situation and understand your explanation - that it would not be possible to share with others in real life...

The perspective I was coming from is that a girl can be walking down the street doing something, and a guy sees it and has a whole story in his head about how she is interested in him etc.

Hatzlacha!

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 17 Apr 2023 21:44 #394589

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a good alternative for me is exercise. a good run on the treadmill can go a long way in releasing anxiety and relaxing the body. they say its also scientifically proven 

טאטע טאטע טאטע איך וויל זיין, יא איך וויל זיין, א ירא שמים

my forum

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 17 Apr 2023 23:23 #394598

  • eerie
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yitz23 wrote on 17 Apr 2023 05:23:
Which part is similar?

Can anyone out there relate to the mother enmeshment? I hear very little about this stuff in our world...

Hi! Welcome, and it's great to see that you are really involved with the chevrah! Keep posting and sharing, and remember there are a lot of good things to learn.
I relate somewhat to what you are saying, I sometimes had such thoughts and feelings about the way my grandmother would act towards me. But I think, like frank.lee, that my thoughts came from my perverted view of her, not from her. Meaning, my perverted, sexual way of viewing the world made me think that she is doing this and that because of her own sexual drive, and I may very well have been way off, as she didn't mean any of that.
Keep trucking, my holy friend!
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Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 18 Apr 2023 04:02 #394623

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yitz23 wrote on 14 Apr 2023 22:03:
Hi guys 

I'm a low-twenties single guy (I'll say it - yeshiva bochur) and this is my first-ever post.

I also am afflicted with SSA, and while I haven't acted out explicitly with other men in a long time, I am always checking them out and masturbating about them. It is also manifested in small touches and pats that I give and get from my friends (mainly give) without telling them that I am getting sexual gratification for the contact. I never know if they caught onto me, though.

Sometimes when I'm feeling lonely I call gay phone sex lines to talk to other men. I have a kosher phone, but I can't filter who I call, so it can be a challenge during periods that I'm struggling with it (it's on and off).

Thanks for reading. If you all out there could respond to some part of my post, or just cheer me on, it would be super nice.

Sincerely, 
yitz23

PS Please don't drop any bombs on me or use scare tactics. thank you

Hey, Welcome. Check out the SSA forums. You will find many others who can relate to your struggles. 

Feel free to reach out. All the best. 
Here to see what works for others and a good shmooze. 
Always here to share my journey N' what works for me. 
Feel free to reach out 24/6 charlesbosgod@gmail.com
One day at a time!
Today is what counts. RULE 62
It’s the first drink that gets me drunk.
“Yesterday is the past, tomorrow is the future and [a] mystery.Today matters most
One lust drink is too many and a thousand isn't enough.
**Its a part of me, not who I am**
Last Edit: 18 Apr 2023 04:02 by crabapple18.

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 19 Apr 2023 04:48 #394669

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Guys I just want to say that I signed up to GYE in 2019 but I never posted anything because I figured, what's the point? So a bunch of anonymous people can read my anonymous post and throw out their two cents?

I couldn't have been more wrong.

I have been so moved by the outpouring of love and support I have received since my first posting 2 days ago. Both in the thread and in PMs, I have received boatloads of warmth and encouragement - I might even be ready now to think about cutting back on the motzei zera.

So, kudos to all of you, and thank you from the bottom of my heart.

PS If someone reading this has not yet posted in Introduce Yourself, please give it a try. It's amazing.

Every hand's a winner
and every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for
is to die in your sleep
                      -Kenny Rogers,
The Gambler

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 19 Apr 2023 06:09 #394672

  • misgaber96
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Shalom,
Nice to hear that you are here and doing well. I can admit to you that I myself am powerless over lust and sexually acting out and have some SSA tendencies myself compared to my friends although I can't say I have SSA. Thank you for showing us strength by sharing your situation with us. I personally find that just sharing where I am holding helps me from being stuck inside of my head, in SA it is a form of surrendering. 

Just to share... I found myself looking at a woman when riding back from seder this afternoon and TG I was able to surrender her to Hashem. I said to Hashem "I want to look at her" and then I felt ok and I feel like it dampened the obsession. I don't remember praying for her so I will do that now. 
All the very best,
Misgaber

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 15 May 2023 03:31 #395686

  • yitz23
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Hi everyone long time no speak

I am very proud to share with you that today is my 20th consecutive day not masturbating!!

What has been working for me is going to the gym and getting all that energy out, and talking to mentors I connected with via GYE (including HHM).

The feeling is unbelievable!! I'm in control of myself!

A rebbi is offering me a really generous incentive at 30 days, so I am very excited to make it there, with the help of God.

And I hope to keep it going further as well! I'm done with using my penis as my pacifier. I have uncomfortable emotions sometimes, but that's okay, I don't have to numb myself from it.

Please put in a prayer for me. It's hard sometimes, and it's hard to make it to the gym every day, so I am going to need a lot of strength going forward.

Thanks so much!

Yitz23

Every hand's a winner
and every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for
is to die in your sleep
                      -Kenny Rogers,
The Gambler

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 15 May 2023 12:10 #395698

  • true_self
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WOW!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!! 
I'm so happy to see that you are making progress, 20 days not masturbating is major! & something to be proud of,
Seeing other people making progress encourages me & adds motivation,
Thanks for sharing what help you, (maybe I should also go to the gym...).
Keep it up 
Waiting to hear when you reach 30 days! keep on posting.
My thread: From two identities to True self

If you want to reachout to me to talk please email: wish2banonym@gmail.com

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 15 May 2023 13:44 #395699

  • monseyyid41
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Yitz23, you are an absolute superstar. This is such a chizuk for all of us. Anyone who is doubting themselves if they can do it or not needs to read and reread your post. Thanks for sharing this and keep us posted.
My thread: Forum (guardyoureyes.com)
We are not all in the same boat, but we are all in the same lake. And when one boat is in trouble, the other boats in the lake can quickly come to his aid. Feel free to reach out to me to give some chizuk or to receive some. monseyyid41@gmail.com

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 15 May 2023 18:24 #395706

  • yitz23
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Thank you so much Monsey Yid. Your words mean a ton to me.

Lechaim!

Every hand's a winner
and every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for
is to die in your sleep
                      -Kenny Rogers,
The Gambler

Re: Gay bochur, trouble with Mom, masturbating 15 May 2023 18:38 #395707

  • yitz23
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Hi everyone

This is a post about how I got to day 21 so far. I have a burning desire to express this publicly, I don't really know why. Thanks for bearing with me even though it's a very (very) long post. Please forgive me.

Plus I think it can be helpful for some people to read. (And shoutout to champ Ki Sorisa for keeping me company on the Live Chat while I wrote this.)

(Background recap: Today is 21 days clean from masturbating, BH. Beforehand, I was masturbating about every day, often multiple times a day, sometimes spending hours in bed masturbating, waiting a bit, and doing it again, and again, and again.)

Some of the things that have been working for me:

1) Physical activity (going to the gym):

I've never in my life had a period where I was being physically active until I started going to the gym a couple weeks ago. Before that, the only time I got my heart rate up was when I masturbated. So for me, part of the pleasure of masturbating was really just the natural good feeling (endorphin rush) of getting my blood flowing.

Exercising is SOOO good for my mood! Pretty much whatever horrible mood I may be in when I start my workout is gone by the time I'm finished, and it is replaced with a feeling of fullness, confidence, and victory. It's much easier to push off hornyness from that state of mind, let me tell you.

2) Finding something non-sexual that feels orgasmic (going to the gym):

Some people I've told this to didn't relate, but I've found that the sensation that I get when working out with weights closely resembles how I feel when I orgasm. It's pushing my body, having my heart rate and adrenaline keep rising, and finally, when I literally can't go any more, BOOM I drop the weight and my body relaxes, leaving me panting, spent, and with a calm feeling in place of the rising tension. Is that not like masturbating?

3) Taking care of myself (including... going to the gym):

Someone told me the yesod that self-care does not mean spoiling yourself and drinking expensive iced coffee (despite what you might learn on Instagram). In fact, that is close to the opposite of true self-care.

Just like taking care of a child or elderly person can be very challenging, so is taking care of yourself. Things like making your bed, cleaning up your room, eating healthy, getting good sleep and exercising are things that we might not consider fun, but things that we would like to do for our children. We have to care for ourselves just as much!

After I learnt about this, I noticed that even basic things like using the bathroom when I needed it or taking a drink were things that I would push off if I was too lazy. That's not nice!! I wouldn't do that to someone else, but somehow I was overlooking my own needs.

(I'm not saying that there is never a place for pampering yourself as part of self-care, but that that is the secondary aspect of the practice. I think the adult-child analogy works well when determining the proper balance.)

Receiving love and caring from yourself is in some ways just as powerful or maybe even more powerful than receiving it from others, and is truly healing. I also think that you cannot really receive love from others, regardless of how much love they are offering, until you love yourself - it just has nowhere to get in.

4) Talking to others about the problem:

Someone wrote on the forum, "The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it is connection."

I don't think of myself as an addict BH, but I connected to a few guys via the partner program and private messages on the forum. It is so geshmak to open up about these issues to another real live human being. I found phone calls to be most effective. (I haven't tried face to face meetings yet, but I would like to soon.) I personally have had more luck so far as a mentee than as an equal partner.

It really feels good to get these things off my chest. Just speaking out a fantasy that I have to a non-judgemental listening ear makes it feel like I am lifting a burden off of my heart.

Also, I would be so disappointed to have to report a fall to them, so it helps keep me in line as well.

It's scary, but do it, you won't regret it. Hashem Help Me is a great place to start.

(As an SSA guy, I am mindful of not letting something bad come out of speaking to other guys with the same issue. I think the risk is worth it, though. I'd love to hear thoughts/experience with this issue.)

5) Success breeds success!:

Once it's been a couple of days without masturbating, it's much easier for  me to take control of where I'm looking. If I'm just a few hours after (or before) fantasizing and masturbating, it doesn't feel significant to look at a boy sexually. But if I am clean and trying to stay that way, I want to help myself by not putting thoughts in my head. I wind up with explosively exponential kedusha!

          A few points that speak to the SSA oilam in particular:

6) Trying to dress and look more attractive (including going to the gym):

This is really part of self-care (above), but I feel that as a gay bochur, I spend more energy worrying about how I look than the average straight bochur who is not interacting much with girls. Even though I am not trying to connect sexually to guys, it is always in the back of my mind that part of me hopes to be able to get with a guy. or at least be viewed as attractive to another guy. (Anybody else out there always looking at their tush in the mirror?)

It is therefore unexpected that working on looking more attractive would be stepping in the right direction, but I feel that deep down somehow SSA is related to feeling needy and isolated and worthless, and therefore dressing the part of a good looking guy will be helpful at the root of the issue. (I am, I think, a good looking guy, but I got flabby and never put the effort into dressing well. That is now in the process of changing, bezras Hashem.)

Feeling like people find me attractive is a tremendous confidence booster, and also helps with the principle of pas besalo - since I feel like I could get with guys if I tried to, I feel less of a need to fantasize about it.

7) Connecting with other males in doing masculine things (in the gym):

The big drawback of visiting the gym, for me, is being exposed to guys who trigger me. It's a hazard that's inherent.

I find though that after attending regularly there is a bond that develops with the gym buddies and that ha gufa - connecting socially to such sexually attractive guys in a completely non-sexual setting is extremely healthy. (It's really early on for me in the process, so this section is somewhat speculative.)

What I do is - and I am far from perfect - if I find myself staring, I push away the thought and focus on why I am coming to the gym in the first place. It's possible!

Also, the gym is, ironically, a place of vulnerability in some way: guys are helping each other and being helped, giving and taking advice and encouragement, and facing their limits every day. It's great to build connections there.

Shoutout to you if you made it to the end!! I really appreciate it. Many thanks.

Can anybody out there relate to this stuff? Any thoughts? Will you try any of it?

Every hand's a winner
and every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for
is to die in your sleep
                      -Kenny Rogers,
The Gambler
Last Edit: 15 May 2023 18:40 by yitz23. Reason: added numbers to make reading more manageable :)
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