DavidT wrote on 19 Dec 2022 14:43:

I'm so Maskim with you... Of course it's bad and a major problem that has to be dealt with. I just felt that it should've been more דחקה בשמל ומקרבו בימין!!
Which must of you did a great job and I wanted my dear friend nsc to feel that I'm with him so I posted that but in a way it was good that it was posted and not just pmed  so that if someone else has similar issues can see that it's a scary thing to play with and he should get the help which is BH available. And now to my dear friend nsc you have a zichus you brought out a huge Thing that can help bring awareness to so many others!!
So keep your chain up high (be careful not to bump your head  ) and help yourself follow the instructions that all your friends here gave you… they only posted what they did cause they like you and care for you. If they wouldn't they would just say let this guy destroy he's and he's daughters life,but they didn't say that cause they care!!

But now that you guys made such a big deal your actually getting me nervous like I also get turned on from seeing my daughter undressed once in a while ( like some times when I bathe her etc) like I'm human she's a girl and she looks good bh and if she's naked I can get like hey that looks cool of course I don't act on it or touch her c'v! But you guys make it sound like it crazy to get turned on from your own kids... why? Just because she's mine I can't get turned on from her??? Again of course I never in my right mind have even a הוה מינה to do bad to her etc. but if you chavrah think that I need therapy because of this I will happily go! I want to help myself and my children... I personally don't think it's a issue but let me hear what the olim thinks.

Geshmak! wrote on 19 Dec 2022 17:23:

Geshmak! …if your daughter is young enough that you are still bathing her, then YES, it is wrong for you to be turned on by her naked body. ABSOLUTELY!! No healthy man gets turned on by a child. That’s not normal. And it is also questionable to be turned on by your older daughters, as well. Just because they are female doesn’t mean they are not your own children and having sexual thoughts about your own adult children seems perverse to me. But certainly, a daughter that you are bathing?! She turns you on?! My friend, that is over the line.

Geshmak! wrote on 19 Dec 2022 04:35:

This may sound harsh. It may be healthy to open up to someone, but it's not healthy to post triggering language like that in my opinion. And sometimes the healthy reaction to someone opening up is "Get help. Now. Please. Both for your sake and the sake of the life or lives you may be on the verge of ruining." That doesn't mean anyone ever asked for this Nisayon. I don't think anyone did. But that also doesn't mean our reaction must be "Hashem loves the struggle, so if you're falling you can still put yourself in triggering situations with kids in your family and be great! Cause you're fighting!" That ignores the worlds we are playing with if we put others in harms way. That is misplaced compassion at its finest in my opinion. Help someone feel better in the moment by potentially sacrificing other lives.

My dear friend Geshmak!, I hope you don't mind if I offer you a little piece of advice. This forum is a great place for discussion, for chizuk, for learning about ways to fight this battle, to feel part of the community of holy people looking to be better, it's gevaldig! Or maybe it's Gesmak! or both:) But it is not a place where you will get professional, workable, tailor-made answers for weighty questions. For starters, I know nothing about addictions or how to help them. I'm not a psychologist, psychiatrist, or any type of doctor. I'm not a Rav. But on here I can write whatever I think about any topic...and so can somebody else. Second of all, do we have all the details to the question? I'm not saying you even have a weighty question, maybe it depends on what you mean when you say you are 'turned on'. I don't know. I'm not going to weigh in on your question; I'll leave that to the professionals. I will say that just like if you have a halacha question you wouldn't ask the people in the coffee room at the office. You'll call a Rav, explain your question, and he, knowing his stuff, will ask you for all the pertinent details, and you'll get a real, workable answer. Same with any weighty question my friend. If your not sure whether you need therapy reach out to someone who can help you analyze your issue and direct you further. You have written in the past that you spoke to HHM. Why not give him a call? He'll be happy to hear from you. Don't forget to send regards! I love you my friend, and please keep posting all your gesmak! comments, they liven up my day! whenever I see a post from you I read through the whole thing, you are full of life and chiyus, mamash geshmak. P.s. Please don't lock yourself in your room just because TG wrote what he did! Keep k'nocking!
To clarify, there are tons of great things we can learn here. I myself have learned many great things. But if you have a specific question, and a weighty question at that, while you can gain from putting it out and hearing what the oilam says, don't accept an answer just because someone wrote it. Reach out and ask someone you trust, share all the details of your question, and then listen to his advice. Wishing you only the best!

Eerie wrote on 19 Dec 2022 17:12:

Dear r’eerie! Love your post and I’m so maskim thank you H for moderators and thank you moderators for all you do and thank you gye for everything!!
I personally don’t think it’s a problem to argue in a respectful way with anybody even the moderator if they don’t like they can remove it… what do I gain???it just brings out the point better what their trying to bring out and/or I understand better their reason etc 
zee genantcht and a frilchah Chanukah!!

I guess the question then is what do you call respectfully disagreeing. Have a wonderful uplifting inspiring chanukah, for you and for your whole heilige teire mishpacha! Keep sharing your infectious simchas haChaim with all of us!

Wow the olim is good they really care for me!! Thx so much guys gonna find out if I need help from the   guys that know me a little better… והמבין יבין 
thx all for your beautiful caring response !!

Teshuvahguy wrote on 19 Dec 2022 17:39:

This whole conversation is so frustrating to me. No. you are not crazy for having curiosity about your daughters at all. There are 2 kinds of people out here. People who wish to say our bad desires Hashem gave us are sick and we must heal or we are going to molest people. And those who say lets realize that these feelings are not uncommon, don't make you sick and we must be very careful to control our desires. And just like we cant act out with any random girl on the street even though we naturally desire woman. And therefor we have to gourd and control our desires, so too with our children, we may unnaturally get turned on by them (from OCD, from worry, from curiosity, and yes from desire) but that doesn't mean our feelings are illegal or sick. FEELINGS ARENT ILLEGAL. But of course. We have to be very very careful. For example, don't give your daughters a bath if she turns you on.  BUT FEELINGS DONT EQUAL ACTION.   

This doesn't mean you shouldn't go to a therapist. You absolutely should! Just like if you want to get helped with a challenge walking you go to a foot doctor. If your having a challenge with desires/feelings, go to a therapist. Of course you should see a therapist. Especially since even though the chance is small, there's still a percentage of people that are indeed pedophiles. So definitely go. 

Am I understanding this correctly? that Mr. "noselfconfidence got so much condemnation and judgment for having feelings/desires? Did he seriously not do any action wrong and get a response that "he shouldn't go anywhere near his daughter"? And 10 people thanked the post? If its true that Mr. "noselfconfidance" didn't DO anything wrong, Then I'm really really bothered.  Who said he should stay away from his child? Are we all licensed therapists? Do we know where this desire is coming from? 

If feelings = actions then I ask all men who have desire for woman to GO GET HELP ASAP all woman in the street are at risk!  For all those that have a violent feelings QUICK GO GET HELP ASAP every person on the street is in danger. All husbands that desire their wife must go for therapy. Every wife is in danger during niddah. All people that have desires for goodies that they don't have, GO RIGHT away to therapy, everyone out there is at risk of being stolen from.

According to this logic that desires = sickness             THEN YOU ARE ALL SICK. Every girl out there is a potential victim. Go get help.

Am i missing something?.

There's something called OCD. Many times when we do not want to think about something because we know its bad, we start thinking about it. IN almost all cases of desire/feelings for those that we do not want to hurt at any cost (like our own children) , they come from OCD. From obsessions of not wanting to think of it because its so not wanted. and NOT from desire.  A licensed therapists needs to diagnose if its coming from OCD or if its coming from desire. Not us here mikvah hocking. That could damage a person forever. On the chance he has OCD and not desires, (which is the vast majority of people with such feelings) Then we just made his life 100 times harder. Instead of being here for him, we rejected him. I don't care how many times we post "but we really accept you and care about you here" 

Tell me how any of you would feel if you had OCD and you posted about your struggles and got such rejection. No amount of "we really care for you" would help me come back.

Disclaimer. I'm not saying he isn't a pedophile. It could be he is. What I'm saying is that its not up to us to diagnose him. It can damage him for life. We gatta be be careful my friends.

This from --  www.treatmyocd.com/blog/how-long-does-pocd-last-pedophilia-ocd-symptoms-treatment

Obsessive-compulsive disorder affects 3 to 4% of the population worldwide and millions of people in the United States, which works out to 1 in 40 people. There is research to suggest that pedophilia OCD, an OCD subtype characterized by obsessions and compulsions around fear one might be a pedophile, is actually a fairly common subtype of OCD.

It’s difficult to know just how many people live with this condition because many people do not share these thoughts, even with their therapist, for fear of being judged or even reported on such a taboo topic. The condition often goes undiagnosed or misdiagnosed.

Human being wrote on 20 Dec 2022 02:01:

Yes, you are missing something. Lusting after pre-pubescent children is very different than lusting after literally anyone else. Having sexual feelings about your own prepubescent children is not considered normal in any rational person’s mind and I think it is indicative of deep psychological problems that have the possibility of harming a child who completely lacks personal agency. That is the ultimate problem. There is an insurmountable power imbalance involved with parents and small children. You are so hell-bent on defending all feelings that you are forgetting that a certain percentage of people with feelings will act on them and where children are concerned we MUST err on the side of caution. Perhaps when you have children you will understand this. And I’m really puzzled and a little shocked by your entire sarcastic rant about every woman being in danger. There is absolutely no moral equivalence here.

Teshuvahguy wrote on 20 Dec 2022 02:18:

And there are a percentage of people who will rape woman. And there are a percentage of people who commit violent crime's. And kill people. And car thefts. And sexual abuse of their spouses and friends. And god knows what else. So you are saying we should ASSUME someone is going to act on his feelings?

And yes i am highly concerned about peoples feelings. And yes I care deeply about others, especially people going through such challenging situations.  Yet a still agree with you that he should go for help to make sure everything is alright. I yes i agree and its pashut. We must always protect our kids very very strongly. And yes, we must not take chances when it comes to our kids. 

But it seems from this thread that we are so hell bent on protecting kids, that we don't care anymore about diagnosing people with things they may not have. Why do you think protecting our kids has to come at the expense of potentially misdiagnosing someone, hurting them for life and making them think they are crazy, when we are not therapists here. The logic of protecting our kids by hurting people and misdiagnosing them is just plain wrong.

We must and can, care immensely about both. One should never cancel the other. We must protect our children at all costs. But we also must be sensitive. Especially for someone who is going through such things.

No one is suggesting being insensitive. Telling someone who shares that they are attracted to their toddlers that they should get help is not insensitivity. It’s just fact. Some feelings must be evaluated in order to protect everyone involved. HB, take it down a notch.

Teshuvahguy wrote on 20 Dec 2022 02:36:

Im sorry im coming across as so intense. I am very upset at this. The comments he received that numerous people "thank youd" the post, was extremely insensitive. Unless he DID something illegal or plans on DOING something illegal, we have absalutely no right to tell him what hes doing is illegal and sick. And yes when 10 people thank a post saying just that, it is terribly insensitive.

For all you know, the guy has OCD and we just made his life hell.


I'm so happy for you that you don't struggle with pedophiliac thoughts ever. You are very lucky that you don't struggle with this. I used to, and its hell.
Thank hashem. And know that just because you dont suffer from it, many others do.



I hope you dont think i mean this personally. I love you. I love Cordnoy. I love Eerie, Jackthe jew,Frank.Lee. all the guys i argue with its purely about the topic at hand and not personal. And yes this topic got me very upset. (just karmad you to show you my love "-) tommarow im going to karma Cordnoy.

You guys are good! I love a good debate… but don’t worry I’m gonna find out if I really need help or not I don’t really get turned on I just think it’s nice and cool… whatever… this I should discuss in private with a therapist , but thank you both for your beautiful posts.
I just hope that everyone else that has this issue goes to talk to a therapist cause it does sound like a real issue.
a frilchah Chanukah to all!!!