Hi TG! It's nice to see you here. btw, you seemed very bothered by the seeming double standard shown by Cordnoys post and shared some strong words about it. As a follow up I would urge you to check out said post and write a beautiful piece about equality on the forums. Keep trucking my friend!

Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 22 Dec 2022 11:42:

I don't think anybody argues on the aspirin thing. What I believe Markz is saying, as well as what I'm saying, is that its not about morally what should be done, but rather practically what can be done, aka, practically how can we get him to get help faster, Markz and i believe that the less aggressive we are, the better we are off practically. The faster we will get someone to reach out, and the safer people will be.  So what do you argue about? I see 2 options.

1)- You agree that practically the softer the approach, the faster to get someone to reach out for help. But you believe that since its morally wrong to be soft with such a guy, it prohibits us from giving a soft reply. (in short, You agree practically, But you believe in a moral response over a practical response)

2)- You believe that a softer approach will make it less likely that a person will reach out, and therefore (in short, you disagree practically)

Eerie wrote on 22 Dec 2022 17:10:

I believe this is really a separate conversation. Meaning, one conversation is the argument about how we as gye members should respond to the post (softer or tougher).

And then there another conversation that is, what one should be allowed to post, verses what we deem inappropriate, and unacceptable.

For the first conversation -the one you are not commenting on, its a matter of opinion. Markz and I, as well as some others believe, we should respond softer. And Cordnoy jackthejew, franklee and many others believe, we should respond tougher. Its 2 legit approaches and thank g-d we have all come back together following a couple ruff days on the topic. 

Then there is another conversation- the conversation i believe you are posting about- --of when and what, should our wonderful moderators edit/delete/allow/not allow. About that topic I think we are all in agreement. I believe we all agree that the moderators are fair, looking out for all of us, and good at what they do. And I think we would all agree that leaving it up to the moderators is not only a good choice, but rather the only choice. Thanks again moderators! 

I love that this post is so real. I am young twenties, and I struggle with the masturbation. I plan on Shidduchim, like now, but I am afraid I will not be able to stop when I am married. I am glad you have a wife who understands the situation are cares, and B'ezras Hashem, I will have that, someone caring, hopefully Id be able to stop at that point tough. I just fear what would go on.
Thank you for this post, this is something I needed to see.

I love that this post is so real. I am young twenties, and I struggle with the masturbation. I plan on Shidduchim, like now, but I am afraid I will not be able to stop when I am married. I am glad you have a wife who understands the situation are cares, and B'ezras Hashem, I will have that, someone caring, hopefully Id be able to stop at that point tough. I just fear what would go on.
Thank you for this post, this is something I needed to see.

sleepy wrote on 25 Dec 2022 05:38:

I just raised you 1 so now you are only -38

sleepy wrote on 25 Dec 2022 20:53:

Now you are -37. I just raised you one. 

Human Being, you did an incredible job of explaining the issues at play over here. Thanks for the elaboration. R Noach Weinberg zt"l said regarding kiruv that one should be effective, not honest. If a non-frum jew asks if it's OK that he doesn't keep Shabbos, the truthful answer is absolutely not, but the effective answer is that he should do what he can (this is purely an example, please ask your local kiruv professional regarding any such situations). As far as the discussion, I think we need to realize there is nothing to be gained by harshly castigating the poster. He most likely already knows his actions are wrong. He had the decency to at least reach out for help, and he shouldn't be "punished" for doing so. The most effective way of dealing with the situation is by compassionately guiding and encouraging him to seek immediate help. And yes, compassion is warranted, as he himself was struggling. In order for our words to be heeded they need to be spoken out of concern and care for the one we are giving advice to. In our discussion, there was a toddler's safety on the line. While it might feel comforting to us to sharply rebuke the perpetrator, our main concern should not be "being right", but being effective. Ultimately, I think the smartest approach in cases like these is not even to post publicly in response. The best method is to quickly alert the moderators as they are in the best position to quietly decide the best course of action. If the person is able to be helped then I'm sure they have the best resources, and if he isn't able to be assisted and someone is in danger, then they have the necessary information to alert the authorities. The reflexive backlash that was caused by that post accomplished neither of those things. 

hashemyeracheim613 wrote on 26 Dec 2022 03:49:

Beautifully said. I should have done better, as should several of us. Thank you for laying it out clearly and in a way the message could be received. 

hashemyeracheim613 wrote on 26 Dec 2022 03:49:

The true answer in my opinion that for where he's holding, the answer may be that it's okay. Because Tofasta M'eirubah Lo Tofasta. And G-d won't smite him because of it. Judaism is an all or nothing religion only in the sense that I can't say that I don't have to strive towards that because I think it's not valid or important though G-d said it is.

hashemyeracheim613 wrote on 26 Dec 2022 03:49:

There is a distinction I'd like to draw here. If I tell someone about a desire I have and the reaction I get is "That's Sick!" I may feel judged ( and the intent of that statement may not even be the person reflecting on my value as a friend or family member as much as an instinctual reaction to the nastiness of the idea being expressed). On the other hand, someone can write with words "spoken out of concern and care" that I feel for your struggle, You're a wonderful person for trying to fight and do your best and I'm sure you never asked for this, but right now you are sick and it'll benefit you and others for you to get help. That's more out of caring then judgement in my book. Distinguishing between caring advice and judgement is essential.
And the reason leaving it up to the moderators to help this individual may not be enough in my opinion is that there are many, many who peruse this forum without ever posting. And the urgency of getting help can be lost if members struggling in these areas but not brave enough to post and looking for info and maybe basic guidance are just treated to a host of well meaning comforting comments, without knowing of the many experienced moderaters who may have helped that specific person who did post get the help they need.

The response to the particular post being discussed was closer to the "That's sick" style. I don't think people are confused regarding the issue of being attracted to one's own child. No one read those posts and 'discovered' that such thoughts are mildly inappropriate, to say the least.  If anything they probably would feel more ashamed and isolated after seeing the vehemence displayed. Flagging the post and writing a small note to the moderators will ensure that the individual who posted receives assistance, which is the most important thing. Then, if deemed necessary, the moderators can explain the issue from a professional standpoint, as opposed to a slew of amateur and often contradictory opinions.

This was just an example and wasn't meant as a Hashkafic outlook on how Hashem deals with people who are growing in their observance but still have a way to go. Here is a better example. A non Shomer Shabbos person who is interested in Judaism asks "Rabbi, what is the biblical penalty for purposely desecrating the Sabbath?" Honest answer; death. Effective answer; honestly I'm not sure what to say but don't say death.

Human being wrote on 20 Dec 2022 05:18:

You are most certainly welcome! Since being in the SA program we learn that pure honesty is key to staying sober. I am glad that this simple share was a good example.
All the very best.

Rabbosai!
I hope you are all well! I would like to get back to the topic at hand, I have read the previous posts since 10 days and I have not seen much introducing and sharing, I have seen some arguments though, whether they are for good or bad I will not comment. I will reply to one comment after this share as I feel it is an important point. I have been struggling with ADD quite badly I thought I could go off my meds but it seems that I am loosing things and it is difficult to get things done. I have gotten quite frustrated about these things today and I am trying to find appropriate tools and measures that will help me in this battle, has anyone used an online tool or forum that has helped with this.
All the best