anonymous.lost.everything wrote on 02 Nov 2021 22:47:

i don't believe the chumash says any such thing.

anonymous.lost.everything wrote on 02 Nov 2021 22:47:

Sorry but what you're writing is very far from the truth. 
Hashem's action's can many times reflect ours, but not the way he relates to us. Hashem has unconditional love for us and because of this we can always experience the most comforting feeling in existence. Regardless of how far we have fallen, Hashem still loves us and cares about us.
Hashem created all challenges, and He knows exactly what goes on. He knows we want to do good, and He never looks down on us or rejects us.

When Hashem miraculously split the sea for the Jews in front of them, the Egyptians chased after the Jews — right into the sea! Yet, wicked as they were, when they had to be killed, Hashem was saddened. He would not let the angels sing praise to Him, even though He had just saved His chosen nation! If this is how much Hashem loved these wicked gentiles, we cannot fathom how much Hashem loves every member of His chosen nation.

My contention is that there is a difference between what how view really view Hashem and how they say they view him. Because we teach Jews to never say or even think certain things.

And I think that's a good approach if you are a person with good mental health, but if you're sick in the head it's better to be honest.

Trouble wrote on 03 Nov 2021 15:16:

This is what they said about Hashem, and He changed His behavior because of how they chose to see Him;

וְלָמָ֣ה יְ֠הֹוָ֠ה מֵבִ֨יא אֹתָ֜נוּ אֶל־הָאָ֤רֶץ הַזֹּאת֙ לִנְפֹּ֣ל בַּחֶ֔רֶב נָשֵׁ֥ינוּ וְטַפֵּ֖נוּ יִֽהְי֣וּ לָבַ֑ז הֲל֧וֹא ט֥֥וֹב לָ֖נוּ שׁ֥וּב מִצְרָֽיְמָה

עַד־מָתַ֗י לָֽעֵדָ֤ה הָֽרָעָה֙ הַזֹּ֔את אֲשֶׁ֛ר הֵ֥מָּה מַלִּינִ֖ים עָלָ֑י אֶת־תְּלֻנּ֞וֹת בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֗ל אֲשֶׁ֨ר הֵ֧מָּה מַלִּינִ֛ים עָלַ֖י שָׁמָֽעְתִּי

אֱמֹ֣ר אֲלֵהֶ֗ם חַי־אָ֨נִי֙ נְאֻם־יְהֹוָ֔ה אִם־לֹ֕א כַּֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר דִּבַּרְתֶּ֖ם בְּאָזְנָ֑י כֵּ֖ן אֶֽעֱשֶׂ֥ה לָכֶֽם

He even calls them bad.

You have to understand that there's a difference between the rationalizations and sugar coatings that we teach people, and the facts. Precisely because Hashem reacts this way it's important that we keep teaching people to interpret His actions always in a good light. But people can connect the dots. We see Hashem's actions and draw our conclusions, regardless of the official party line.

But it's a mental illness and a relationship gone bad. Rationally, we can tell that Hashem made the world because He wants to benefit us.

It's important to understand that we addicts subconsciously want to maintain this twisted view of Hashem because it gives us a reason to feel that ephemeral pleasure that we're God ourselves. That is why the meetings are so effective: the behaviors there are inconsistent with this "lens."

It says (דברים א:כז) that they said “בשנאת ה׳ אותנו…” and they were punished for it, but nowhere does it say that Hashem hated them

All of a sudden I am freaking out. I feel like I want to lust. I'm calling SA people left and right and nobody picks up the phone.

Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 04 Nov 2021 01:57:

רש"י בפירושו (בד"ה בשנאת ה' אותנו) והוא היה אוהב אתכם

DavidT wrote on 03 Nov 2021 16:04:

It's possible that Hashem's love is unconditional on the lowest level, but the level on which He relates to us is directly related to how we relate to Him. This is learned out of the four levels that Adam and Chava related to each other. The lowest level is zanav, then achor b'achor, then panim el panim, and finally yechidus (bassar echad). 

When we relate to Hashem in a back to back manner, i.e., we don't want to see Him rather we just want him to provide us with our need and not punish us (avodah m'yirah), he reciprocates by providing for us but without wanting to look at us. When we relate to Hashem like a tail, i.e. that we don't think about Hashem at all and just follow because we are stuck to our traditions and routines, Hashem reciprocates by not occupying His "mind" with us either. 

It follows that someone who doesn't believe in Hashem at all is on an even lower level of a relationship with Hashem. It's true that Hashem waits for His children to return to him, and it's possible that He loves us unconditionally, but it's a huge mistake to think that the love always remains the same.

If a person feels that “Hashem doesn’t like the action that I did”, that would be a wonderful reaction. But when a person feels “Hashem doesn’t want “me” anymore, now that I’ve sinned” - this kind of thinking will make a person become disconnected from his relationship with Hashem.

After a person sins, chas v’shalom, he must feel two things at once. First of all, he must realize that he has gone against Hashem’s will, and that Hashem did not desire at all this evil action that he has done. But at the same time, he must also feel, no less and perhaps even more so, that although Hashem didn’t want this action he has committed, Hashem still wants him as a person.

And that's precisely exactly the hole filled by the 12-step program. The addict is a tzadik most of the time because of the fear of rejection, but the threat of rejection weighs on him as he does God's will, so pretty soon he needs a meeting, and the meeting helps because the actions there completely blow up his threat-of-rejection thoughts.

God doesn't reject people, but what runs your life is not what God does, it's only what you think He does.

If's a self-defeating belief called "perceived narcissism."

That's what AA calls "a faith that works." It's your own religion plus your self-defeating belief, plus AA to remove it.

As part of my step 2 inventory I'm going through the chumash and writing down my questions on the pesukim.

It's starting to emerge that there is too much evidence that God does have some of the traits that I don't like. In other words, my theory that I have entirely the wrong idea about God is not correct.

Instead, it appears so far that God values me a lot more than I ever thought possible, that He's extremely invested in how I turn out, and that the story of God and man is about a relationship, really a love story. Tensions can run high, and God adjusts His behavior as man adjusts his.

I think in my step 2 I need to make a conscious decision to approach God to bring out His most pleasant, merciful and loving side. And I do see myself coming to believe that if I do that, then God will respond in kind.

And I do believe these findings reflect exactly the Jewish position on God. He has many attributes, it's a relationship, and we need to bring out the best in Him.

And there will be times when this operation doesn't pan out and at those times people need to stick together until the storm passes. And for addicts "together" requires other addicts. Normal people, who don't drag along inside the wreckage of their past can feel "together" with normal people.

I think when it says "came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity" just simply means let go of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. That is the source of a lot of correct knowledge and opinions, but also of a lot of nonsense, often mixed together. Set it down and reach for the genuine article, which is outside ourselves somewhere. It can be found in God, seforim, other addicts, doctors, family, your sponsor, and who knows where else. As long as it's not inside.

I must have let some lust slip by. Making myself miserable with depression and anxiety and thoughts of going off the derech so I can act out.

Started dialing numbers but nothing yet.

I think it could be my brain saying "it's been six weeks, can we get turned on now?"

Stay strong bro!! I'm with you!
Keep going - you know its worth it.

Thank you.

All I can do is lie on my bed feeling that tension in my crotch and feeling that God hates me, just lying here crying.

Like the big book of AA, where they get terrors.

The only thing that helps is that I know it's all about my subconscious wanting me to get aroused. What a farce.

My sponsor said he's going to call me later.

It is no surprise that you feel this way.

You are in pain, and so seek a quick and free "high" to escape the pain.

The way forward is to do activities that nourish you spiritually and physically and intellectually.

A small step forward is to phone someone who you know needs a chat or is going through a tough time, and just chat.

Then go for a walk.