anonymous.lost.everything wrote on 04 Oct 2021 16:44:

Glad my post helped you. 

As someone that has been there (suicidal) the thoughts don't make sense and yet are so real, it's hard to believe. Would my wife and children REALLY be better off without me?? Seems unlikely, So why did I nearly kill myself thinking it was true. Dunno. As you say in another response, that's why it's a mental illness. 

Anyway.

Lot's of frum stuff on here about Torah and Mitzvos. I don't know much about anything. But i think being healthy comes first. If your keeping of Halocho slips a bit while you sort yourself out and there is a prospect of you getting back on track later, seems to me it's obvious that is the way forward. Please don't mistake Hashem and the Mitzvos. Hashem gives us the Mitzvos to draw close to Him. Someone with mental illness might need to take a step back in order to take two steps forward in the future, 

Sadly, i thing some Rabbonim don't see the wood for the trees. 

(Queue all the attacks on me for voicing this opinion). 

I can relate, it is very challenging when a Rav has a effect and your also disappointed. In my experience it is important to find a rav you can trust. There are really good people who are also rabbonim. Make sure to qualify what is important to you in a Rav and then go about making that connection. Once that connection is made and you can trust him, he should be able to help you deal with the Rav who is giving you so much grief. Please be patient and be  be hopeful

bego wrote on 05 Oct 2021 09:44:

I don't disagree in principle, but I have tried that approach already and in retrospect maybe it was necessary but in the end for me it wasn't that productive. I find that SA tells me to do my religion like I mean it, as in step 3, "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him." To me that means learning better and doing more mitzvos, because that is the "care" that _my_ Higher Power can provide. So that's what I'm trying to do. And since deep down I believe that Hashem hates me if I don't do the mitzvos, I'm leaning on my SA fellowship to repair the mental damage that I myself make every day, ie "I did the mitzva so I let Him abuse me."

Mikegtoday wrote on 05 Oct 2021 11:11:

Thank you. It's actually getting better, just like you described. Yesterday was a big turning point. I went to an SA meeting the other night and they saw right through me and convinced me to make amends for something. I finally did (it was hard to figure what I felt I was so wrong about) and as a result I lost the guilt and we both accepted that I don't trust him and we're going to live with it. At least that's the plan.

I feel very much for you. i can't imagine the pain you are going through.
I really relate with what your going through. I am depressed for over a year and am addicted to porn. I thought i was the only one with these two really-hard challenges, as my deppression is one of the causes to my addiction.  also just started out with a new therapist.
I hope to recieve some love here, cause i lack some self-love...
Keep strong buddy together with all of us.

Yay! I went to see a therapist. He asked me a lot of detailed questions about suicide and bipolar exhilaration etc and he scheduled another session for next week. He had no agenda based on what I told him (everything) so he asked me what I expecting from therapy. He did tell me to stick to what I was doing, namely SA.

Every now and then I feel the loneliness, my kids are not here and I can't look at them and feel the nachas. I know they are okay, but it's like doing time. They are not far, and yet they are a million miles away.

I think I need to remind myself that that suffering is healthy and it's a manifestation of what is awesome about me, namely that I was totally devoted to my kids for so many years. I need to let myself feel it, let the tears flow, every day so the suffering feels good instead of hurting.

And I need to continue keeping an eye on it in case it becomes depression, because that one needs to be treated.

maybe you can zoom your kids once a week. I know someone who does that. It's amazing that you're so devoted to your kids!
May Hashem be with you.

This is really what Emuna is all about. even if we can't rap our minds around something we Still fully believe!
Plzzzzzzz stay healthy in ruchnies and gashmius we all care about you!!!!!!!!!
all the best!!!!!!!!!

I often think that I help my kids by being far from them because I'm worried about them. I believe that Hashem uses our thoughts to bring about change in the world, so I do think that being far from them and worrying about them will help them in the long run.

I was very far from my mother for many years and I believe that she thought about me every day and that Hashem listened to those thoughts.

Just now I was thinking that I maybe don't believe that Hashem is good any more.

But I think I'm just seeing what I have always held. Meaning God is good when things are going well, and He's bad when things are terrible. And He probably views me the way I choose to view Him. So maybe if I want to fix my addiction I need to surrender that thought and let the adult me take over from the child me (this is what my sponsor explained) and give God a chance to keep me sober and love me, find out who He really was all along.

Also considering that viewing Him as a manipulative controlling God enables me to go get my lust, which is my avoda zara that I love. I can hardly trust myself to have an objective view.

Another thought I just had is that I no longer trust myself to know what's good for me. I don't think it makes sense to know it. The only sense of good and bad that I can rationally justify is only what Hashem views as good or bad, because He has all the power. That means that if I get cancer I can feel at peace that this is the true good. Because it's an opinion of good which is authoritative. My opinion of good and bad was a lot of bs all my life. I *felt* like I knew good and bad, but it was b.s., or at least it was mixed with a lot of b.s.

Which makes me feel better because I don't have to worry about my mother and her fear of the nazis coming for me. If they're supposed to come, and I somehow prevent that, that could be a big problem which I finally understand twenty years from now.

So maybe in step 3 the "care of God" is not the nice things God does for me, it's whatever He sees fit, even if it sucks for me. Like the sheep who gets eaten by the wolf. At least the sheep knows that this is the way it *has* to be.

i cant say anything.

i cant imagine the pain you are going thorough, it must be very very hard, I'm crying for you.

thanks god that i never went through such difficulties, but one thing i want to add when i started going to live meetings i hade a lot of fear about a lot of things and a lot of things went wrong since, i was sure that I'm over dealt with very complicated crazy problems, their is no way i will be one day in a happy place and in fact since the second days of Yom tov I'm still in a depression mode where whatever i try to do feels like lifting a ton of bricks but i remember feeling bad a lot of times and tried doing the next right thing a lot of times ending up not doing it still i can say life is in a good place Hashem puts every think in place, he figures out ways to make every thing good much more creative and batter then what i ever imagined, i know i only have to do the next right think and every thing will be beautifully delicious.

its easier said then done but i don't look for perfection rather for growth so I'm allowed to make mistakes

One thing I'm really proud of is that I am not davening for my ex wife to take me back because there's a very real possibility that Hashem would make it happen, and I know her and she would not be happy. I think she's happy now. Overworked but happy. And after 15 years I finally loved her 100% and I couldn't let her suffer any more. I remain committed to rotting away on my own so she doesn't have to hurt.

you touched me with your heathy words, all i can say is i can see how one day the lady that you will have in your life will apricate the real transformed you and if it will be your current wife she will be proud of you.