it seems we are all in agreement here, any length look is poison without subsequent aversion and affirmation.
I often forget, and then beat myself up over a look that took too long when I should be concentrating on the fact that I did indeed turn away.

Check out the Gemara Brachos 7a: How long is a "rega"?
And the Gemara gives two answers:
1. The time it takes to say the word "rega".
2. One 58,888th of an hour.

So, if you can manage it, I guess you can try doing the 3-rega rule as per the second interpretation.

Good luck to all of us!

MT

obormottel wrote on 29 Jun 2012 06:30:

Another way to tell that someone is on gye... when he sees a woman - he starts counting "one onethousand, two onethousand..." and looks away just before he hits three onethousand :.

Agree with O'Mottle and JKG.
Three seconds is long enough for me to get a whole fantasy up and running.

My eyes need to BOUNCE OFF any forbidden sights. Instantaneously. Better yet is O'Mottel's suggestion of develping early warning, meaning seeing a problem from a distance, and working to avoid it. I saw a young woman in shorts jogging on the sidewalk coming at me just this morning. I took my glasses off and looked straight down as I walked. At the last moment, I looked at her face and said "hello" so not to be rude (but I can't see even at that distance without my glasses -- I don't recommend looking up if you can see).

Thanks all, sorry for not listing each of you individually.

basically I understand from all of you, that you are confirming what said that the 3 seconds is a bit too long, it doesn't take more than a split second for the damage to be done. As AlexEliezer said i need to work on my eyes bouncing off instantaneously.

To 'Justkeepgoing', I actually drive myself and there's a jogging route on the side of the highway i travel. I've become an expert in driving and spotting the pretty joggers at the same time. that's one expertise i wouldn't mind losing, I guess I just have to really want to lose it.

Thanks for all your input here.
have a good shabbos kodesh.
Keep Climbing, don't let nothing stand in your way, keep believing.......

A gutte voch!
Shabbos was great!

I feel horrible writing this, but I know it's good for me to.
I had a fall on Friday, the problem started when I got hold of a computer with no filter, and the rest is history.
it feels even worse because this was the first fall in almost half a year that I looked at the worst of the worst.
I guess you really can't be to confident in yourself.

Thanks for hearing me out
keep climbing.

Been there, done that, about two weeks ago.
Keep wrote on 01 Jul 2012 02:11:

KOT! You have everything to gain!

Hatzlacha!
Meir

koc
This is a quote from Dov: Many of us - and I know it is really many - wish we'd not have the struggle....but what this really means it is that we wish we could just look at naked women once in a while, whenever we really, really feel we goota look...and yet stil not end up having to masturbate.

What I think Dov is saying is that we realy wish there wouldn't be any thing wrong with what we are doing wether it's looking at women on the street or the shmutz on the internet. The difference is that the shmutz on the internet most of us feel bad about it in the first place but looking at women we know it's bad but we don't feel it's bad so we still want to do it we just wish it wouldn't be wrong.

In order to win this we have to accept that it is truly hurting us even if it would be allowed according to Halacha. The problem here is that we are using women in any way we can(on the street internet etc.) to make ourselves feel better this is the meaning of addiction.

Alccohol is muttar yet most of us (I hope) would not start drinking to escape our problems and we look down on people that do use alcohol to escape. well when we look at women that is exactly what we are doing.

We need to focus on what our issues are what is making us feel we need a boost. we have to feel good about ourselves.
once we look at it in this way then we see that even looking at any women is bad for us
and we can start the 12 steps that any time we have the urge ask Hashem to help us not to look . Hatzlocho

Ben yakov, very well thought out. We should have a privilege to read more from you throughout the forum.
Mottel

Thank you Ben-Yakov for the perfect words, and oh so sadly-the truth.
I realise that deep down there's a part of me that doesn't want to give up the "pleasure" of looking at pritzus on the web.

As I mentioned before that the fall was due to an unfiltered computer, what bothers me now is that I realise such a computer is a continuus threat. When do we reach a point where one can pass an unfiltered computer and not be dragged into logging on? As I mentioned, a fall of this sort I haven't had for over 6 months. I thought that I took care of this area already, quite upsetting.

Sorrry if my words sound a bit like the y"h, but this is what's bothering me now.

Thank you E-tek for the thoughtful chizuk.

Yours truly
keep climbing

OM
Thanks for the complement. I need to post more, for myself and of course to give chizuk to others. Unfortunately I don't have the time to post as much as I should.

KC
I am clean now for 2 years. About a month ago my wife left the computer on with access to everything, but we have k9 installed. That day I was feeling a little down and I tried looking for pictures B"H k9 stopped me. This is after 2 years.

I was talking last night with my wife about what you wrote. I said that I think with internet I may never be able to have free access. But for women on the street I feel I am able to look at them as people.

My wife answered and this is the point: Women on the street [s]we[/s] as addicts make them into sex objects. Therefore when we change our attitudes towards them we will be able and look at them as people without getting turned on.

With the pictures on the internet all they are trying to present is that they are sex objects. We just have to make a decision to look or not. We cannot change what they are trying to present.

So don't feel bad about not having free access. Unfortunately we did this to ourselves and this is the only way to heal. I think Elya wrote that he is still afraid to be home alone.
I don't know if there is any sober addict who can handle free access to the internet.

The most important issue to work on is to think about and discuss why we want to stop looking even when we know this is hurting us and preventing us from having a true and full connection to our spouses. This is where we need to ask Hashem for help.

I find that any time I ask Hashem for help it takes away the urge to look and reminds me I can't do it alone and keeps me focused on the positive things I am able to do. Such as learning reading talking with mt wife playing with my children etc. etc. things that bring true growth and true happiness.
Ben Yakov

Thank you Ben Yakov
I find it hard to believe you still have newbie status, you sound like a pro.

I spent a while today internalizing your explanation of the difference between woman on the street and the schmutz on the internet.

I found myself reviewing those 2 lines today everytime I saw a woman on the street.

Thanks for the chizuk.
KC

Hello everyone,
I figured I should come back to my original string to post about myself and what i'm up to now, I b"h did not have a fall in 4 days. This past Friday I finally spoke to someone from the forum here. I have to admit I was a bit reserved. We spoke aabout 15 minutes. After that I found myself craving to speak again about my struggle, as the relief of finally speaking to someone who truly understands you without blaming you or pointing fingers is something I can't begin to describe.
I spoke with him again today, this time for longer and opened up much more about myself and my past.

I just have this reccomendation for all of you who haven't opened up yet and spoken to someone live, go for it see if you relate to someone on the forum and send him a pm. The results are amazing the feeling of letting yourself tell someone your story is the best thing you can do for recovery.

Truly yours
KC

Hi everyone,
sorry to report I had a fall of mz"l today.
Reason: I have youtube open on my smartphone, I'm working on a solutin to disable it.
I felt horrible afterwards, depressed, not interested in my family, irritable, etc.. luckily my wife attributed it to my lack of sleep. If only she knew.

Thanks for listening, I feel better writing about it.
here we go again, day 0 in my count.

KOMTGC

The idea is to call someone before you fall.
Nu. You'll get another chance, I'm sure.