last try(hope) wrote on 07 Dec 2011 22:54:


1- You certainly are afraid, a bunch. So am I and everybody else. And only by continuing to move through that fear (as your efforts here show you are starting to!) do we get anywhere, it seems. And we need to keep moving through our fears if we are to keep growing. Hoping you continue to get support and learn how to use Hashem and how to use people. Virtual is very nice and may be enough for some, but you may discover that you need some real relationships with real people - you know, the kind you do not know only by a fake name like "Nisayon613", etc...

The real relationship you have with your wife is obviously not working for you as a recovery tool (it rarely works for us, so don't feel bad!). It sounds like the time to grow some real, real relationships for your recovery from this obsession and problem. Let her be, don't explain it to her - just grow out of your obsession and become a better husband. You can do that in many more ways than watching movies with her. Walks are nice. So is listening a lot. So is washing dishes, coming home on time, and being real good friends with her.

Not looking at schmutz is just the startof life as it should be - it does not even come close to defining it. Get me?

Go for it.

2- Yeah, I know, those 'pesky' women who don't seem to realize they are dressed inappropriately, and do not seem to realize how powerful they are....!! Really? Is this the truth about what we think of them?

I think not.

You are saying they are endowed with power, right? They have an effect on you. You see them as a danger to you. But they are not sitting on you, are they? You are the one looking at (and up to) them, right?

Face it, when we drool after them - or desire to, but struggle not to - we truly harbor a worship of these people. Voluptious means powerful, to us. Face it. It's a pity, it may be seen as "ossur", but that is actually irrelevant. We see them as powerful people - otherwise, they would not vex us so. 

Blaming it on "the yetzer hora" is just childish and dishonest. Only once we accept our tendency for what it is - the giving away of great power to people with just the right image - are we aware of what our problem actually is.  And as Sun tzu said: "know your enemy"...it helps to know your real problem, if you want to know what to do about it. Of course, further study to try and beat it - the decades long proccupation of many a good frum sex and lust addict - is fruitless. We all know that one, right? Learning teshuvos on what's really assur and really mutar, doing 'teshuvah', tikkun keri...all eventually levatolah (pun intended).

In that vein, I'd like to suggest that you may be making a mistake when you say


Of course Alexeliezer is 100% right: without shmiras einayim, we will get nowhere! But it is not your eyes that are your main problem. The core of the issue is that we want to see them and connect with them so badly! As long as we still hang onto our long-standing and deep-seated faith that they are powerful (because they have the right, perfect, beautiful image), we will be toast.

Recovery is not about knowledge of the truth, but only about acceptance of the truth - and then, the acceptance of new ideas. This is what AA refers to in Ch.5: "we tried to hold onto our old ideas, but the resut was nil...till we were ready to let go absolutely."

These very things I am referring to are some of those ideas we so badly want to hold onto. First, we want to use fantasy and sex to get what we believe we need. Then, we struggle with it, but though we really wish we'd stay stop masturbating and using porn and fantasy - we still hold onto our faith, believing as we do, and still see women (and sex) as we always have. Unfortunately, our first goal is always to change or surrender as little as possible. I see this in myself all the time. This will not work, at all. It is "white-knuckling". My 'philosophical comfort' is so precious...and talk is cheap: as long as the new ideas remain in theory, all is OK - we can say we agree with anything. And this is where much of our yiddishkeit is laying (or lying!). As soon as it means lemayseh giving something up or changing a behavior and to act as we believe...look out! Gevalt. Truth is chosamo shel HKB"H, no matter how ugly it may be.

As for me, I cannot survive unless I 1- see and accept the unvarnished truth about me (steps 1,2,4,5, and 8), for that makes me become willing to: 2- open my mind to discover new truths about me and new options (steps 3, 4 and 5 [again], 6, 7, 10, and 11) and then to 3- humbly beg for G-d's help to live by it just for today and  4- take simple, simple, simple actions to accept His love, His power, and His help (steps 5 and 7 [again], 9, 10,11 and 12).

And though it is truly impossible for me to succeed living by it, there is a real G-d in the world, as the Rebbe R' Elimelech used to like reminding (frum) people. And with a real miracle, one day at a time, I can....and do live by it. Imperfectly, but here I am. Life has never been better. Just like so many other hopeless addicts do all around the world(and 95% of them are goyim, so it's clearly not on the condition that we be tzaddikim!).

Maybe it comes as a chiddush to us that these pesky women are not so pesky after all. That they are dragging themselves to work as we do: to make a living, put food on the table, and to just 'get by' - and not to be sex goddesses, at all? Maybe they are as frail and troubled as everyone else and not really powerful, at all? Maybe Hashem loves them as deeply and meaningfully as He loves us? Hmmmm, that's new...

I needed to hear all that, thanks.

Oooh, one more thing regarding all these deep changes in us:

Some start to occur rather quickly and suddenly, while some take many months, sometimes years to really progress. As long as we stay sober for today while we grow, one day at a time, and exercise patience for G-d....life will change to the better and better.

The 90-day conversion idea might be true for the breaking of a habit. But that is a far cry from any real change. Change is on the inside, not the outslde, and ho'odom nif'al achar p'ulosav is not on our timetable, but on His.

thank you all for the great advice!
i will read all of this again until it sinks in
i realy feel now that with the help here and the place to talk it is doable.

we will Be"H be in contact.

LT
ps look out for me on the chart 8)

:-[
had an inconvenient conversation with my wife
told her that i want a filter on the computer and she said fine but for what do you
need it??  :-[
i almost spilled the beans to her but in the end remained silent.
(to whoever asks, 2 years ago i told her and promised it will never happen again)
in the end we now have K9 on our computer.
does someone have good advice what should i do (about telling her)?

Do you love her?

You can tell her that, at least for starters, if it's true.

Do you use the computer for porn and lust purposes?

You can at least tell a safe person here on GYE that - in detail. You can be honest with someone, at least. Why make her the Guinea Pig or your foray into honesty and openness?

Forgive my ignorance, but, so far, have you spilled the beans to anyone here on GYE in detail? Or has it been stuff like "I have problems with lust, you know....I look at porn sometimes...I masturbate sometimes....I wish I didn't"

If that is what you have done so far, it is commendable - but will not cut it.

Hatzlocha and much love, to you.

Don't make her your Guinea Pig. Learn how to tell all to safe men forst - then you will maybe be able to tell her all and get a healthy honest relationship going, here. You deserve that, you want that, no? Nothing to hide, right?

First things first.

so here it comes
from the age of 16 (now 28) i looked at girls in b*ini and M* after that. 2 years ago i promised her i will stop totally but after a few months fell in again. after about 2 months i stopped for almost a year and now i was in for ~3.5 months.
that is all the story.
i hope now with all the new things i learnt here it will be different.
anyway it was very awkward conversation.

last try(hope) wrote on 19 Dec 2011 07:42:
What please does the last thing mean:

"and now i was in for ~3.5 months"

In what? Looking at same stuff - or different stuff? Bikinis, or what? It is not clear what the problem you are having is, and how frequently you do it, nor how you get the stuff you are looking at.

Hatzlocha opening up. Awkward is better than stupid, I always say....well, I don't always say that, but sometimes I do....

LOve you, chaver

it meant in the same old garbage for about 3.5 months. sometimes i would look once in a few days and sometimes a few times a day.
i would get the girls in bikini by looking at regular news sites as msn etc.
my problem is- although i stopped for long periods of time i every some time fall and then it takes me time to catch myself again.
i am trying to think what will make this time different- and i thought about some things but i need more ideas.
learnt a lot  here what is the right thinking 
put k9 on my computer
told my rav in the kehila and we made up to speak
made a 'neder' for 2 weeks-renewing it each time- not to go into non kosher sites

LT

1 - I assume that you do not masturbate yourself over this stuff, as you do not mention that here, at all. Do you, or not?

2- Thanks for being so open (pending the above). I gotta ask you a question here, based on what you have said so far:

Your username is last try (hope). I guess that means that you are looking to this site and to what you are doing here as your last hope for finally beating this bad habit of yours.

OK, so lets assume you are not an addict - just a guy who likes the way it makes you feel when you find and look at women's images especially when they are hardly wearing anything. You do not like that and want to quit.

Do you really want to quit?

If you do, then are you ready to do whatever it takes not to enjoy that nice feeling you get when you look at them, or not?

And if yes, then you will discover if you are telling the truth to yourself - or just lying to yourself pretty soon. Cuz if you look again in a few days that means that it is clear that you really do not want to be rid of it. As Rav Twerski writes, our behavior attests to what we really value the most.

This is not a "challenge" - just a fact. 

So far, you have taken smart actions that demonstrate that you are choosing the good life instead of prusteh lying and hiding: 1- arranging for a meeting with a Rov (assuming you will be totally open with him about all the facts and tell him everything there is to know about your lust behaviors), and 2- being on this site, and 3- telling the truth about yourself on this thread.

Continued hatzlocha and chag sameyach!!

1. realy wrong, sure i do masturbate i look at those pictures so i can do it (wasn't trying to hide it i just thought i wrote it before).

2. yes before i got to this site i was very frustrated, i was sure that if i stopped for so long i am realy clean and it was very frustrating to see i was realy wrong. on this site i am learning that their is a lot to be done(maybe i will change my user name).
i hope i am 'ready to do whatever it takes not to enjoy that nice feeling you get when you look at them' how can i know if i realy mean it 'haadam yiree laeinaim vehashem yiree lalevav'??
i think the biggest change i made is telling my rov that i am addicted to 'zima' on the computer and that we need to talk. 'maase satan' we set a time to talk but their was a misunderstanding when it should have been and from then he still didn't have time.
i pray to hashem that the courage to talk to a real person would not leave until we talk..

last thing - i am looking for some one that is willing to look at my webchaver reports. i am sending them to my rov but i am not sure if he looks at them. part of the problem is that they look from the out side fine, it always sais report looks good for LT 8) only inside the report between a few sites that wrongly are rated as this site.. their is a few bad things , so i need someone to realy look.

thanks all
LT

first you asked:last try(hope) wrote on 22 Dec 2011 10:20:


then you answered it with




You are simply opening up, getting real - and that's huge. Captain Kirk...look it up on this site. No matter how 'good' or 'frum' we are, there is no real-ness to our behavior until we let other safe, real people into our secrets. In AA etc, they say "we are only as sick as our secrets". Of course they are right. All those who argue are really just hiding themselves. And the real reason we hide our behavior is not because we are ashamed - it is to protect out ability to keep on doing it!

Your opening up is a major, major thing. Hatzlocha and kei yirbu. The steps we take are small, very small...but he opens up the needle hole to a huge hallway that wagons can cart on through...Chaza"l are spelling it out (even though they were not talking about addicts, of course).

just came for a minute to say hello.
i am trucking on B"H .  33 days to the count.
i never thought that posting would be help but on shabbat we were at  friends and they had all the newspapers i shouldn't be looking at , so the whole shabbat i was telling myself don't touch them (even though i was realy tempted) and you will be able to brag about it on the forum.
and ofcourse 'vezacharta et hashem elokeicha ki hu hnoten lecha koach laasot chail'
so b"h here i am. :D
LT

Bragging rights are yours my friend!
Thanks for winning this one for all of us!
We're in this together and will see you all the way to a much better place!

Shteig on bro!

Hey, seichel is a good thing, no? You did good, b"H.

just wanted to update
with hashems help i am 55 days clean (by definition of the chart)
+ realy working on not having lustful thoughts + doing a lot better on 'shemirat einaim'.
i think until now  i just wanted to stop with pics&masturbate but now i am fighting the whole war.
i have a dilemma-
B"H i am standing my promise about non kosher sites, there is a writer in 1 of them that i realy like reading. should i ask someone to download that article for me or should i just let go of it?

thanks for reading

LT