Me3 wrote on 06 Sep 2011 20:06:


Simply an indication that you haven't been around often enough in the past few months...

Do I get any extra points on my credit card for heping to coax a super-long post out of dov.

Me3 wrote on 06 Sep 2011 20:06:

Me3 8), how :o could : you :-*!?

....oh, yeah, whaere is the threadmaster here, Mr Nebulamud (shlit"a)?

I do have an admittedly warped sense of humor.

I could have still made it funny not at the fellow's expense, so for that I appologized.

dov wrote on 06 Sep 2011 20:38:

I am still here! I have just returned to yeshiva after bein hazmanim, so I have been very busy setting myself up again, this past week so I apologise for not being so regular lately.
I must say that although I do feel honored to see that you would take the time to write several lengthy posts in answering my (and other's) questions, I have felt that the replies were immensely complicated and while I love reading all lengthy posts on these forums, since they have so much feeling and meaning to them I have often gotten lost in your posts, dov, so I have not been sure how to respond. I have honestly been baffled most of the time in what, bichlal you are trying to say, and so I just couldn't respond because sometimes I felt that my questions were not at all answered, even though you answered many other off topic questions, so I am quite glad that obbermotel expressed his mutual confusion which was what I was feeling in his list above.

To answer where the threadmaster has been over the last few days, is that I can see that you brought up many points which are very nogeah to many people reading this particular thread including me, so I just sort of took a step back and let the conversation naturally run its course.

But now I am here rambling on and not being specific so there you go, it happens to a lot of us too!


Ok so that was as far as the previous discussion goes. As far as how I am doing, the answer is not so good. In fact bad. Well I am depressed, and I can't fully figure out why. I have been on medication for clinical depression for quite a while now, and it has been working, and nothing has changed so I honestly don't know what is wrong with me. If suicide wasn't assur, I see no reason why I would go on, that being said, it is assur and that has stopped me from ever trying it so far in my life. I see everyone here dealing with their issues but their issues are not the same as mine. Everyone who is married is working on their relationship with their wives. Everyone who is not married is working on themselves to get ready for marriage, and to ensure that they will present their wives with a non addict, reliable husband.
Bur thats all that. Husband wife marriage. It all doesn't apply to me. I don't want to marry a women. I certainly can't take a man, thats assur. so where does that leave me? Alone i thunk. There is almost no one else like me out there, and the ones that are like me do not have the same type as me. There are people who still manage to stay married. To be with their wives. I don't see that in me. Its not what I want, I don't want women. And honestly, I am getting sick of it. All this alone. My family would completely misunderstand this, and that really would push me over the edge. My rabbi's don't understand this condition, they just prompt me with idiotic questions, and useless suggestions. I honestly am truly alone, in a room full of people and I can't do a thing about it. Anyone who would find out about me would just be disgusted at what I want. I am sometimes disgusted at what I want. I am convinced you all are disgusted at what I want. So I must simply suffer alone. And for how long? Well as long as I live. I don't see any exit. I don't see any hope. The only relief that I get from this is my running, because it gets me to stop thinking, and just focus on the road. But that must end, when I tire of the exertion, and when it does my crushing aloneship comes back. All I want is my crush, and I can't have him. So it's just me. Just gay, disgusting, filthy rotten, putrid me. Alone. Thats why I don't want this. And what a lame sorry sob story this has become. But this time no edits.

Nebula STOP THAT!!!

Do I need to throw all your words to me back at you? You are not any of those things!

Stop running alone, and get back in the Special Forces truck with us. Bshaim Hashem Naale Venatzliach!

GEVURA!!!!!!!!!!!!

i second Gevura's sound rebuttal!

you are a precious caring good-hearted yid
end of story

do you have problems to deal with? definitely
did you make mistakes in the past? probably. most living breathing people over 3 have done so.
guess what? we are in similar boats. some have this brand of issue some have others
but we all have issues. even people with 8500 posts who have been sober for the last 2 centuries have issues.

you have shown that you have a lot of good in you. focus on it. use it. live it.

and we are here for you. we accept you and love you. make us and yourself proud.

NM you are not alone 1) lust is lust no matter what flavor it comes in.  If you can't stop once you start and it is ruining your life, than you are just like me and many others here; 2) even within your particular lust there are many others in a similar situation.  For example: www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=1200.0.  Stick around and you'll have much hatzlacha.  Remember you're a shining star.

I third Zemmy's seconding of Gevura's sound rebuttal!

There is much that can be said, but first things first:

I have sat in rooms, where people who have the very same problem that you do gathered with others -who do not have that specific problem, and live well with their wives -and nobody considers those with SSA to be "filthy and disgusting". Chalilah VeChas!

Why should anyone think that a person who clearly does not want to be attracted to men is disgusting compared to people who compulsively mas****ate, watch internet p**n, visit pros*****es, engage in consistent voyeurism drinking in whatever female happens to be in view?

Why should any of these indeed be considered any more normal than what your poor soul is plagued with?

When you meet with others who have reached the conclusion that we are not contemptible, on the contrary -we are intrinsically good people with a heavenly soul who are trying to reconnect with G-d, but we are in need of help from others to overcome our challenges and reconnect with Him...

What's contemptible and disgusting about these people? The behaviors from which they are trying to distance themselves? Yes, those are contemptible and sometimes disgusting. But is there really such a big difference whether it's girls, guys, or hamsters that are the objects of our lust?

You talk about a "crush" of yours. That's not love -just lust -whether the object of the crush is of the opposite sex or of your own. That person is just an object. And the way crushes usually end is by the infatuated party being crushed when he realizes that -even if contact is made -it is utterly disappointing and will never live up to the alluring fantasy.

You describe yourself as "gay". You may be attracted to men. But take it from our friend Gevurah Shebeyesod -don't draw any hasty conclusions.

Many have stood at the very juncture that you are now standing. As Bill Wilson writes in the Big Book (p 17-18):




You never know what's just around the corner.

I don't suffer from SSA b"H, but our friend Gevurah has posted some very insightful posts that I think that you might find most helpful and assuring.

I have much more to say, but I was planning on signing off long ago.

Wishing you much Siyatta Dishmaya,

EBD
 

Nebula, chaver, I truly feel your pain.
You contend that we are disgusted by what you want. Not so. What do I know of other person's ta'avois? I just know your struggles, and they are a lot like mine: I can't have what I really want, even though I am married with children. I want a wild life with multiple partners. I will never ever have this since, as you say, it's asur. Should I be misyaeish on my life, chas v'sholoim, or try and get myself to a point where I love my life as it is, and then after 120 years I'll ask Hashem why He felt I was particularly suited to have this Yetzer?   
You said that sometimes you yourself are disgusted by what you want. perhaps it's an indication that it truly is a yetzer, but not the real you.
ANyways, you stand to gain a lot by staying alive and sticking around this site.

Nebula? NEBULA!!!!!

Let us know how you are doing.

Don't make us send the monstuh trucks and hovertanks after you!

Thank you all for your support and not being grossed out at what I want so badly. I am waaaaay past my bedtime now but I will post an update soon, hopefully on the bus tomorrow morning.
I am mostly through that depressive episode that I was in on thurday-friday-shabbos, and I hope you all can stop worrying about me, I have caused enough anguish to you all you caring holy yidden now, so I will soon post about what I have learned from this whole episode and also consequent falls that I had on shabbos.
More to come, i'm yirtzeh hashem.

Don't hope, we will not stop caring about you! >
Also, don't let your good feeling about us guys spare us any detail of your fight because you think it might upset us. Don't hold anything back, we are big boys and can handle it.