My story is the same as yours. More and more of your truth is coming out and that's great. Boruch Hashem! So, for how long have you been doing these things? 5 years? Ten years? More? Nothing you say is unusual to me, and even to some others here, too. The double life, the pain, the uselessness of the mikvahs and the davening, I know it all. Hashem is still here for you, chaver.

Please consider this: You are not at all alone, and I know dozens of people with the exact same tzoress as you, who are now clean from it and living great, and that means frum and doing well. Can I send you a personal mail (PM) here on GYE? Do you know how to pick it up and respond?

Yes Dear Dov, I think I know how to pick up PM.

I'm having this i would say for about 10 years. i was a naive bucher, never had any real tavvos for girls then and since my marriage (with my brain telling me that its because unsatisfactory of my wife's looks....) I'm having this, and i always thought that by the time you get older it winds and cools down but i'm badly mistaken it only gets worse as older you get...

Hey inbox, I know exactly what u go through in ur mind. My wife is NOT like 'those gorgeous babes' out there, but with prayer, friends and time, we have a VERY happy home, great relationship, amazing intimacy and BH very happy children KA'H. I'm WIPED OUT right now, so hopefully we'll connect again soon :-).. Open urself up here on GYE.I don't think ur selfish and with friends and time (and avoda of course) you too can be VERY happy with your chelek. I hate to sound like a cheerleader (which I'm sure I do sometimes) just my wife needs me now and I want to keep all the above blessings going..

Like I said, you can read my thread if you feel it might help. My main issue, the reason i joined here, was because of relationships in real life.

That said, I can understand the feeling that people whose only problem was with P^%n just can't relate. The truth is, though, that they face pretty much the same battle as you, it's just on a different battlefield.

1200inbox wrote on 30 May 2011 20:57:


You are so different to me!!

I went elsewhere in my marriage because I did not have a wife on the right "intellectual" level for me.  So I went and found other women (not good looking, necessarily - probably just like your wife?) who could give me that.  We really are very different, you and I.

The other relationships were all emptiness and I was never happy.  Until I realized that I was wrong in my feeling of absolute entitlement, and that others existed for my pleasure.  I then realized that I did not deserve my wife.  I will not go into the absolute tragedy that followed - some things are just too sad for words.

But I don't think I can help you - I just cannot relate to needing a pretty wife, and never could.

jester by the way woman smart? bah.... imposible.... never like a man, never... (my wife is smart believe me.... but as me? and dont get me wrong im not smart at all....  ;D  )

laagvokeles wrote on 01 Jun 2011 15:01:


I don't want to dignify that with an answer.

(I just self-censored - sorry)

not supoused too... im just tryeeng to be funny.... (but as pink floyd says: in every joke there is a little trouth...  )

laagvokeles wrote on 01 Jun 2011 15:14:


Then I am very glad I censored.  I believe that respect is the foundation of Derech Eretz and basic humanity.

still u cant avoid the trueth....
and i wasnt talking to a woman WAS I? (its only not derech eretz if i tell it to a woman.... but between friends? come on...)
:D

1200inbox wrote on 31 May 2011 20:14:

My problem definitely has gone beyond the internet and, I think that's true also for a lot of peope here.

And, we've all been finding our way back to sanity with the help of this forum.

There's definitely hope for you.  Stick around.

--Eye.

Another thought - no one has challanges on the internet, anyway. The problem isn't with the internet, but with us!!

We need to clean ourselves up, and that usually is not easy or simple.

Hello 1200inbox;

My heart goes out for you and your family. I’m very new here and have my own issues. But, after finding this website I was so encouraged, I was amazed how many people have the same problem that I have, I came to realize, how bad things can be if I don’t improve myself and most importantly that I could stop, because many people here were much worse then me and they recovered.

I want to bring out my point, I’m not sure if I’m right, but, I strongly believe in this, maybe other members here can say their opinion. I think that people are missing this point especially in communities where the before marriage lessons are not the best.

You mention that  “ i would not call my self "selfish" when i want to satisfy my self b'hater, isn't that one of the reasons we are getting married to have "pas bsalo"? “

I strongly disagree with you, this is NOT one of the reasons we get married, so we can enjoy ourselves b’hater. We get married for a lot of other reasons, (one of them is to force us to work on our middos and we have a long way to go there). Do we find in the torah any mitzvah that we need to do so “we enjoy ourselves” ? This is a mitzvah and mitzvah’s are not for enjoyment purposes.

I take the approach that the mitzvah requires us to make our wife enjoy them selves, yes, hoshem wants me to make my wife happy, and that’s the purpose, make HER pleasure, and as a side benefit if we do it the right way, we get a reward that we enjoy ourselves as well, and it eases our nisyonos and so on. If a person focuses on doing this in order “to satisfy myself” it is “selfish”!. Why make use of another human being in order to enjoy your self. Did you ever focus on how to make her enjoy it ? How many times did you think in real, what can I do so she really enjoys it ?

I think that once your focus will change on how can I give instead of how can I take. It will tremendously change things, once she will get that feeling, she will give back much more then she gets and you will realize the any good parts of her. Remember\, the outsiude figure of the person is much less that the inside, what do you gain of a person that nice outside, but, has bad middos and so on.

Your wife is the one hoshem chose for you and with your kids there, I don’t think you want to back out of this marriage. You need to recover and you will soon realize that hoshem has chosen for you the best zivig.

silentbattle wrote on 01 Jun 2011 17:56:


That's a good point.  And, we've all got the same underlying problem, whether it's with internet or other things.

The 12-step programs, whether for alcoholism, lust addiction, over-eating, or other addictions, all use the same program which was originally used for alcoholism.  Though different as the addictions may seem on the surface, underneath it all, our problems are very similar.

--Eye.

"i want to satisfy my self b'hater, isn't that one of the reasons we are getting married to have "pas bsalo"..

If I'm not mistaken Rambam writes clearly that intimate relations should not be done 'only' for enjoyment.hilchos dayos..

Meaning yes we may indeed enjoy this part of life.. But it should not (ch'v) be the 'only' reason we do it..

He does not sholel enjoyment