Hi everybody,
I'm brand new here so I'm not sure where to start and how to start. I'm not a writer at all so please forgive me if I don't express my self well.
I'm a yingerman over 30 with 5 kids but ever since my marriage I feel that I did not get marry to the women with the looks I really wanted I always felt (and still feel) that my parents married me to the girl that they wanted and did not find important that I should marry a pretty women to be 'matzel' me 'min hachat'.
Ever since my marriage since I started to feel out that good feeling of doing it, I started looking around how my chaverim have pretty women and they enjoy them selfs and how I can not satisfy me like they do so that caused me to start watching porn, going to night clubs, messages, even hooked up with some yidissha girls and women here and there (but didn't go too far with them) all of this is hidden from my wife or family she has no idea where my head or brain is altough we don't have the best shulem bayis due to the reasons above but I managed to make the 'unshtal' as a real 'upgehitana' yingerman.
But after all, I look at my self, and I'm very broken, every time I fall through I cry to hashem with real tears and with full regret and asking mechila for that bitter sin and then it happens again and again and again so I look at my self as such a fool that I don't believe in my self anymore.
One of my bitter challenges is to go on the street and not look on the women I'm not talking in Manhattan where the women are going almost naked I'm even talking about yiddisha tzniesgdiga women my eyes are falling out and I'm starting to get depressed why don't I have a pretty women where I should have this 'behater' why do I have to suffer this thru and that causes me to search for pretty women b'eiser.
But I tried so many times not to look or not to go on the websites or not to go into night clubs but when I get in that mood I just can't hold back my self and after that I become so depressed again and regretful and its a galgal hachoizer all across.
What can I do?????
I need help........
I found that site by coincidence and I'm not sure if that is for me. Please guide me through.... where am i starting.......

Hi there 1200inbox...

Rest assured that you aren't the only supposedly "upgehitine yingerman" on this site, who is very concerned at the two-faced life that he is living. While our stories might not all be the same, they very often have similar threads running through them.

Before I give you the standard welcoming letter, I would like (if you'll excuse me for being presumptuous) to challenge something that you wrote. You feel that you "did not get marry to the women with the looks I really wanted" and that your "chaverim have pretty women and they enjoy them selfs"... Those are some pretty harsh feelings, as well as being unrealistic.

The grass is always greener on the other side. We have to stop looking at what's going on around us, which is usually (if not always) viewed through a pair of very distorted eyes... Come on -you see those women all dolled up -but first thing in the morning, puttering around the house, and waking up for the baby in the middle of the night, I highly doubt that you would find them as attractive as you think. That's besides the fact that many outwardly beautiful people only seem desirable until they open their mouths and let their p'nimius come out. Yeah yeah, it always looks like everyone else "macht a leiben" -it's one big fat dimyon -let go of it!!!

I know what you're talking about when you say that your nisayoin is "I'm even talking about yiddisha tzniesgdiga women my eyes are falling out and I'm starting to get depressed why don't I have a pretty women where I should have this 'behater' why do I have to suffer this thru and that causes me to search for pretty women b'eiser." Trust me, I live (thousands of) miles from Manhattan, and all I've got around me are chassidishe chevra, and yes -they all look so young and nice and dress as if their only tafkid in life is to rip my eyes out of their sockets -but that's not true at all! These are young wives and mothers, and they have no shaychus to me whatsoever, and if I will not stare at them -they will not be part of my life at all.

One last thing -you have to stop thinking about yourself, and start thinking about your poor wife. Even if you don't tell her openly that you aren't happy with her looks, and that you wish you had married someone else -her heart knows it, and it's broken. One of the (if not the) most important thing a woman needs to hear from her husband is that he finds her attractive. If you want to stop focusing on all those imaginary women (that's all they are for you) who you think would make you happier, and do a chessed for the one closest to you -you will be able to find her attractive -even if she has gone through five births.

On this site you will find tools for getting out of your own selfish head, taking yourself out of the center of your own little world, and trying to do for others (including and especially your wife)- all of these will help cure your neshamah and heal your relationship with Hashem and your family.

Sorry for being harsh. I just feel for you and even more so for your wife -because you may not realize how selfish your post sounds -not so brokenhearted as just whining and selfish. Sorry, Please don't get turned off -I'm really speaking to myself in this post. There is a ton of chizzuk and growth opportunity on this site for people who are looking for real change. So...

Welcome to our community, you have finally come home!

We're all in the same boat here. Tzuras Rabim Chatzi Nechama   Once you've arrived, there's no turning back. Everyone here will just grab a hold of you and pull you up with them!

GYE Program in a Nutshell: (Right Click the link and press "Save Link/Target As" to save the PDF file to your computer).

'Guard Your Eyes' offers a unique approach to helping people by recognizing that there are many different levels in the struggle for "Shmiras Ainayim" and "Shmiras Habris". After studying the experience of hundreds of religious strugglers over the past few years, we put together the suggestions and recommendations that we feel are best for the various levels. We divided the tools, features and services that GYE offers into 8 different levels. This "GYE Program in a Nutshell can help people quickly identify at what level of the struggle they are at, and which tools and features would help them most at their particular level.

Here are some quick things you can do to help you jump straight into recovery:

1) Make sure to install a strong filter. It will be almost impossible to break free of this while having all the garbage within a mouse click away. See this page for one good filter option, along with instructions on how to install it best – and give away the password to our "filter Gabai"… See this page for another 20 (or so) filter ideas and information… We also highly advise installing "Reporting Software" such as webchaver.org to give you some accountability, because filters alone are usually not sufficient and they can often be bypassed.

2) Join the daily Chizuk e-mail lists to get fresh chizuk every day.

3) Scientific studies have shown that it takes 90 days to change a neural thought pattern that was ingrained in the brain through addictive behaviors. Did you join the 90 day chart on-line? Sign up over here.

4) Post away on this forum! You will get tons of daily Chizuk and support. This disease can't be beat alone. It works best when you get out of isolation!

5) GuardYourEyes also offers many free anonymous phone conferences where you can join a group of other frum Yidden, along with an experienced sponsor. See www.guardyoureyes.org > Tools > Phone Conferences for many different options. Our conferences are taking place every day, morning, noon and night… Joining a phone group would be a tremendous step in the right direction for you and help you learn freedom from this addiction. Not only will you learn the secret of the 12-Steps – which is known to be the world's most powerful program for beating addiction having helped millions world wide, but the daily call will be another way of GETTING OUT OF ISOLATION and connecting with others who are going through what you are.

6) If you need more general guidance, write to our e-mail helpline at gye.help@gmail.com or call our hotline at 646-600-8100.

7) Download and read the "Guard Your Eyes Handbook". This handbook outlines the GYE approach in detail, and makes our network much more effective and helpful for people. The handbook has two parts:

A) The first part, "Attitude & Perspective", details 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth…

The second part, "The 18 Tools", detail suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. No matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

May Hashem be with you!

Elazar ben Durdayah

Hi, I hope we can help.

My wife is one of those you are fantasizing about.

For years I didn't worry about her being around men or boys, I felt, "she's not the type people will look or think about the wrong way".  After getting my issues under control, I realized that she is incredibly attractive, better than even the stuff in Manhattan (or on the screen). By focusing properly we can appreciate what we have.
This does not eliminate the challnge, but this knowledge certainly helps.

ben durdayah
thanks for welcoming me with all that useful information, although I'm new and its hard for me to absorb everything at once, i will take it slowly. i appreciate your inputs and don't mind at all your sharp opinion about me but i definitely think that the problem that i brought up (marrying off their child with someone that matches to them and not for the child) is a BIG problem in our community and a big source and cause of a lot of pornography searching today. i would not call my self "selfish" when i want to satisfy my self b'hater, isn't that one of the reasons we are getting married to have "pas bsalo"? before you know it, u already have a few children and you have no way out. i really would like to know if the problem is with me or its because of my situation. i fully agree that everyone has nisyoines but its definitely easier to fight it when you DO have pas besalo with satisfaction. I'm not looking to whine but really looking to be helped in my situation and I'm really thanking hashem for the beutifull childeren he gave me but it is something that i feel a little betrayed off and couldn't help but to write it out the first time in my life due to the anonymous opportunity's here.

my dear friend "inbox" i feel for u i really do! i wrote those exact words when i signed up about 15 months ago my story is more complicated than yours but i got ur part also in my bag, so i relate to every word u wrote, if u feel reading my story will help u , than i will send it to you, i will try to be short & to the point
BD wrote his opinion but i disagree with him on at least one count & that is "that u r selfish" to me u r not selfish u r just a broken soul, the question u asked if the problem is withiin u or within ur wife, the answer is very simple, UR problem is in urself, & HER problem is something she has to work on (i dont know if she has a problem but i will assume she does based on ur post) there is help for u & for ur wife, 1st thing u need to do is stop ur chatting & porn, of course the going live needs to be stopped, BD made one strong point & i agree to him that ur wife does feel exactly how UNwanted she is & that just makes it worse, so first get a strong filter installed, than chill around here, take as much as u feel like , if anyone is too harsh at u just ignore tham, take what u feel is talking to u & if i can be at help let me know, i am not on GYE very often nowadays but i will do anythign to help a fellow GYE member as i am only clean through GYE & dont lose hope u will be over the bridge if u r willing to work it

be strong my friend , all this pain is meant to be from hashem & u will be rewarded for all of that, just get up & do actions

hatzlucha

welcome!
you came to a good place to learn about what you can do to help yourself. read up - both the linked pdf's and on the forum, there is a wealth of helpful and vital information here. many people with similar situations have been helped.
wishing you much hatzlocha!
zs

p.s. check out this thread: www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=1425.0
and also JewInProgress's threads (he is someone to learn from):
www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=3220
www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=2006

my post was too trigerry....
probably i have to thank guard, less ppl got trigered by me אין אדם חוטא ולא לו but it got ruind without the trigger...

Welcome, Reb inbox!

And no, I'm not being sarcastic by calling you "reb." By coming here and posting, you've already taken a huge step forward. You've made a decision to truly try to deal with this issue in your life, instead of continuing to fall and feel guilty, vow not to fall again, fall again, feel guilty, etc. etc.

And please don't worry about how you'll sound, or whether you're writing well enough. Just talk to us. For me, one of the things that helped a lot was reaching out and opening up and posting, posting, posting.

We've been there. In different ways, in different levels of severity, different situations, but...we've been there. And while I was trapped, I told myself that I couldn't help it, that I needed this, I even, at times, told myself that hashem would understand. I convinced myself that what I was doing was healthy, that it wasn't completely destructive, crazy, and ridiculous.
laagvokeles wrote on 31 May 2011 02:17:


Reb Lagvokeles - I hear your point, but here's where i disagree with you: There are no external, subjective measures of what is beautiful and what is to be pitied. Someone can have a wife that everyone else smirks at, but he's attracted to her. And he's the lucky one, laughing at them. And as yo pointed out, someone can have a beautiful wife, and not enjoy being with her.

I think that, especially for a lot of us here, we can get caught up in "whether or not she's pretty," when in fact, the real question is, "am I attracted to her?" which is a very different question.

Are you following my train of thought?

Now, Reb inbox, I absolutely hear you, and I cry bitterly at the thought of you being married to a girl that you might not have been interested in! That by itself can lead to many problems. I do have some ideas that may help you, though I'd hesitate to mention them outside of the married guy's forum. Feel free to send me a PM (private message), and I can share my thoughts.

However, I need to point out a few mistakes that it sounds like you're making. And don't be embarassed, because they're the same things we all said, in one way or another. And my pointing it out can't make you change those things, but it can offer you an opportunity, if you want to take it. By the way, I don't pretend to be high and mighty. Any knowledge that i gained from others here, and from my own experience, I paid a bitter and expensive price for. Feel free to read my story, if you're interested (the link underneath this post is my thread).

One thing that you keep mentioning, again and again, is this feeling that we have a right to have "this" b'heter. Now, first of all, I should point out that "this" is usually intended to mean a way to have a release. You're turning it into an expectation of having a supermodel wife. And no one has that, not even the husbands of supermodels. Furthermore, one thing that i learned is that it is possible to survive without this, entirely. Is it an enjoyable experience? Yup, absolutely. But realizing that it's not necessary, made my life a far happier place for me to inhabit.

1200inbox wrote on 30 May 2011 20:57:


First of all, we have no idea. Most of the times, the dream lives we think other people are having, aren't quite as great as we think. Rabbi Reisman points out in his book (pathways of the prophets, I think, came out a couple of years ago) that we think our wives are the only ones that criticize us. We're wrong.  :D

More important, though, is your statement and feeling that "that caused me to start." Nothing caused you to start. There may have been things that pushed you in that direction, but you made the decision, and still do. And you have the ability to make a different decision, every day, every second.

On a different note, you hit the nail on the head when you said that, "I look at my self as such a fool that I don't believe in my self anymore."

You're right - we can't trust or believe in ourselves in this situation. If there's one thing that certainly true, and the 12 steps and the torah agree on, it's that we're powerless. Ain aputrupis l'arayus. Call it what you will, if you rely on yourself, you're in trouble. You need to ste yourself up beforehand so that you don't have to face this battle head-on. Then you can start accepting the idea of giving the battle over to God, which I certainly haven't mastered yet.

I do find that avoiding the struggle is far easier than fighting it, and is far better for the long-term. And the more distance you get from the issues, the more clearly you're able to see things, and it becomes easier to make more improvements (it also becomes easier to assume you've foxed the problem, which often is NOT the case).

hatzlacha, and again, welcome!

silentbattle wrote on 31 May 2011 04:25:


100 %
(i have a few hearot, but ur thinking is healthy and true)

Feel free to add your hearot! Don't mind the sharp, sword-like point you feel against your back...
;D ;D ;D

Hello Inbox

I am also from the same kreis as you.  Let me assure you that this problem with p*/m* has got nothing to do with how the wife looks. In the married forum there are plenty of guys who have supermodel wives and have got the same problem as we all have.
Marriage is not the answer to our problems. If something, it only makes it more complicated. Real live is on a different planet then the one on the screen.  Marriage is not about having sex in a kosher way. Marriage is a meaningful deeper connection far beyond looks etc.
Your friends may look like they enjoy them self’s but what do you know how it is really in their bedroom.  But if all the need is looks and beauty then after a while they get bored and are looking for something new. After all you can’t eat spaghetti every day, how ever much you like it

Make list of good things your wife has, (middos etc.) and you will see that the list will go on. (you might also write your shortcomings ) You will be able to love your wife and connect with her intimately for what she is and does for you and your children and not for her looks. That’s the reason we have to do it in a dark room.

Let’s work on our problem as we are all here in the same boat. We have to stop living with the problem and start living with the solution. That can be found in the handbooks, in the emails and here on the forum.

Hatzlucha and start making that list.

Dear Inbox,

Welcome to our community.... I am the admin of this website, and although I don't usually have time to post on the forum, I happened to notice your post and I wanted to try and help you get some perspective.

By the way, you sounds like a chassidish Yunderman, so I just wanted to point out that we have a Yiddish forum over here: www.guardyoureyes.org/forumyid/ ... And you can also download a Yiddish Handbook here.


The Pasuk says "Mayim genuvim yimtaku" - stolen water is sweet. No matter how pretty and attractive someone's wife is, a person will ALWAYS think that someone else's wife would be a lot more fun, and especially someone who has a lust addiction.

When Chazal say that our wives are "Matzil min hachet", they don't mean for addicts. They mean that when a normal person gets a rare attack of lust that might cause him to sin, instead he can go home to his wife and have an outlet. They did not mean that our wives will solve all our desires for other women, especially not for someone who is addicted to these things. No wife can EVER satisfy a lust addict. See this page for some testimonials to this affect: www.guardyoureyes.org/?p=1733.

And please read also this page: www.guardureyes.com/GUE/FAQ/FAQ41.asp through till the bottom.

The only eitza is learn how to surrender our desires and realize we will have a much happier and more peaceful life without giving in to this monster of lust that always wants more. On this website and forum you will learn the tools and tricks that work. See "Ben Durdaya's" welcoming post above.

You can have the best Shalom Bayis in the world. Read the book "Garden of Peace" by Rav Shalom Arush and you will learn what it takes to have the happiest marriage. And no, it has NOTHING to do with your wife fulfilling your lust desires.

May Hashem be with you!

1200inbox wrote on 30 May 2011 20:57:


Dear chaver (1200inbox),

Your short story here was full of honesty. Your pain is tremendous, your jealousy, your feeling cheated, some resentment to your parents, to Hashem, and a feeling that you are lost and need help comes through. You describe a galgal hachozer that you do not stop and you cry every time you 'fall through' and ask from Hashem mechilah with tears.

You describe in the end of your post what some of your behaviors are: porn websites, looking, and going into nightclubs (I assume you mean you are going into nude bars to see the women there, then run out after a while (I do that - and worse - in addiction, too, and did for years and years before sobriety...)
Thanks to Hashem I have been sober from this craziness for many years so far, but if I would be the same person I was before now, then I would I do all these things you mentioned, too. And I could go back tomorrow, though I cannot imaging it, I have bitachon and emunah sheleimah in my craziness - I am not imagining that I am now magically perfect! Even though I have not had a wet dream in more than 14 years and have not had to masturbate for more than 16 - I still do not depend on myself with foolish gayvoh (yet).  And each time I would act out my lust, I would hate myself terribly, blame my wife for not being prettier, and for not being so sexual as I am 'so sure' other women are, etc...I was miserable!

Of course, since you and I looked at porn so much, and with so much expectation and emotional struggle, and took deep into our hearts the images of women desiring and enjoying schmutz and came to have emunah that there are 'perfect' women who really are tremendously sexual - and that our wives should - must - be that way...well , now our wives are doomed! They can never ever compete with what we saw! They can never compete with our imagination.  So now we are doomed, too! We will never be satisfied, and they will always lose. No matter how much they improve, have plastic surgery, want sex with us...you and I will always have that one image or idea in our heads that will make it all "eineno shoveh lee". I know this is true. But Hashem has helped me and many others I know past this problem in recovery.

So, what to do?

First, I must admit that I need to be fixed in two bechinos: My behavior (no more masturbation, no more nude bars, no more touching myself for pleasure, and no more porn) - then, my thinking (no more fantasy in the head, no more thinking about other women and how sweet they feel and may be for their husbands, etc.). Since your behavior and your thinking is the real problem here, you may need to accept that. Instead, you are convinced that it is your chelek in life that is the problem. You are blaming - and I do not blame you for that, for you know no other way!

I say to you that this will take time. But first you need to commit yourself to doing whatever it takes to changing in the two things I wrote above, your behavior and your thinking. You will need a lot of help and will drive people kookoo for a while. The first year or two of living a bit normal without your drugs will be hard. But you will get free of it, get a much happier marriage, and in the end will discover that you are not a nebichel, with a poor chelek in life.

You are clear that your behavior hurts you terribly. You cry about it - did you cry with bitter tears to Hashem in this same way about your dissatisfaction with your wife before you started going to nude bars and to porn? Or did you only start to cry actual tears of regret about your behavior? This means something. She is not your problem. You are. Once you accept that, you will be ready to start getting better.

And the refu
ah is (as mesilas Yeshorim says about chassidus ha'amiti) is rachok m'tziyur sichleinu.

Lets continue be"H.

guardureyes wrote on 31 May 2011 10:50:


I agree.  Not to minimize what you're going through, but I can almost guarantee that there are other men who would gladly trade places with you.

When we stop looking inappropriately at other women, something remarkable happens: our own wife becomes more and more attractive to us.  Forgive the analogy, but if you nosh on the way home, you're not going to have much of an appetite for the supper your wife cooked!

If your wife were the only woman in the world, I am 100% certain that millions of men would be vying for her attention, including you.  If you can train yourself to recognize that, as far as you're concerned, she IS the only woman, you are setting yourself up for a life of happiness.

Hatzlacha!

with a heart of full emotions I would like to thank you ALL of you from the administrator to all other loving and caring chaverim for your encouraging and inspirational comments and posts full with emes and sometimes real convincing. i cant believe that there are so many chooshiva ppl here willing and ready to help out a fellow jew in need less then 24 hours since i first post my original post. i really appreciate all of your inputs. now, let me get back to my story, which i feel i didn't bring out well enough, my real challenge, my real challenge is not so much watching ponog on the internet (most of the times i have filtered net anyways) but by me its more on the streets, when i drive around and i see women i get soooo aroused and turned on that i have to stop by next opportunity to a nude bar or to spa/message place where i can touch all this pretty women and sometimes it gets to a point where i release my self unwillingly, now i would not say that i do this every day or every week but i have real TOUGH challenges in this area and even i am misgaber my self a few times i still have PLENTY times that i fell through and recently as i grow older it just becomes worse.. i go in the mikvah each morning and pray to hashem there he should protect me from all reeyas aseeras and i daven and ask him "haveir einei meirois shuve" ad when i walk out of the shul im SURE that i will not fell into that trap but then again during the day i cant help my self but every minute is FULL of TOUGH BITTERLY challenges indescribable. it seems to me that most people here had or have their challenges on the internet and once you clean that up you can be fine but by me its more on the streets on daily activities then on the net so i'm like what can i do to help my self?