I love you also, Jooboy. You are such a nerd. sheesh.
Hope you have a great Sh"k!

Now quick! Back to self-loathing!

:o ;D

I was tempted to send this as a private message rather than posting it in the open so as not to set off (another) controversy.  But I was assured that "GYE is not SA."  Which means we condone approaches that work, even if they're not classic 12 step.

Selfloving: I totally relate to not wanting to join face to face groups.  I really didn't want for my recovery to become as consuming as the addiction was.  I wanted to move on.  I studied the 12 steps here and even spent some time on the SA website.  I applied most of them, just between me and the Ribono Shel Olam.  I composed a little tfila that incorporates the first several steps.  (you can find it in my initial post in the archives of Introduce Yourself). I chose not to tell another person about my addiction.  I reasoned that I would try to do this "myself" and if I failed, then I would have to turn to support groups, either online, on the phone, or in person and follow the rest of the rules.  I was fortunate to see success, and I have extended by beginner's luck streak to over 2 years now.  Just sharing what worked for me.

Why was that controversial? I'm doing very much the same.

That's good to hear.  Now I don't feel like such a rogue here.  Forget what I said about controversy.  I just want to be helpful to our chaver, Reb Selfloving

The controversy comes when people try doing that, and it doesn't work for them - but they still keep trying that without actually going to live meetings.

What's the line? Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results?

In general, i would add, that having someone in real life that you can talk to about this IS very important, in my experience. But it can be a friend, a rebbe, or someone you met here, if that works for you.

To whomever this belongs:

So if the calls do not work after a few months and you have not gotten the relief that you seek, then what? Are you willing to go to any lengths  to get and stay clean one day at a time, or is this not really bothering you that much? Only time will tell. And that is the same for me, you, and everybody else.

I am not trying to be nasty, but just trying to say that I have heard so many excuses from guys for why in-person meetings are not really necessary (and they may be correct about that!) - but when no other option was working, they still didn't go. They cited some other reason that it was just too...whatever. And that proves to me that the only reason they were ever not choosing to go, was only one: They wanted to be able to keep looking at porn and masturbating. Plain and simple. And I have been there.

And being a powerless addict, I cannot blame them in the least. I'd never have stopped if I didn't have to. I just couldn't go on any more...

So why am I saying this at all? Becuase I believe it is important to say from the outset that whatever tools we are trying to use to get clean and stay clean one day at a time, we are willing to go and try whatever else we will need to if these do not work. We will not stop until we find the help we need or Hashem takes us away. Period. This is our lives and the lives of our families we are dealing with here. Nothing less.

Hatzlocha with the calls!! I love you, brother!