I am new to the forum, how I wish I had found this thread 15 years ago when i first started to slip...

I discovered this site yesterday through the add on vosizneis, while i had another window open in the background loading up the disease...

Boruch Hashem after reading a couple of testimonials I was able to push it out of my mind, albeit temporarily.

I am B"H happily married with 2 children, but my adiction has gotten to the point where I have more of teiva for watching videos online than to "spend time" with my wife, even when she isn't a nida...

Just to explain, I still love my wife, and I am very attracted to her, but 30 minutes after we "spend time" together and she is asleep I find myself inexplicably getting the urges again and sometimes will sin within the hour of being with my wife.

I have been trying to find a way out, but I am not ready to see a therapist or group therapy, my pride it too great...

I hope that the 12 steps and support of this group will be what I need to finally free myself from the torturous jail I have made for myself when I was a teenager.

I think that's enough for now, this is the first time I have shared this with anyone, so I am a little uncomfortable despite the anonymity of the site.

A big thank you to the founders of the site, this is the biggest tzedaka I have ever encountered.

Hopefully this will help be be able to stop the,

Selfloathing

Nice to meet you.
We can relate.

First time I saw this site I could have danced for joy.
Indeed that feeling was enough inspiration all by itself to keep me clean for some time.
But eventually it wore off.

So the next step was to start actively posting and join the 90 day list, and that helped.
And then that wore off too.

So then (well after much seesawing) I started working the 12 steps and working on myself, and well I'm still doing that but I feel like I'm making real progress.

I wish that reading this could help you jump to the last step, but I think that you can only get there through desperation (more desperation then you think you are feeling now).

So much Hatzlacha I hope you feel comforted that you've made the first step to hopefully to a great clean pure life.

Selfloathing Helllo,

First of all Welcome.

Make a commitment now to stay around and look for help. Very often we get workup to make changes and sure enough a few minutes later we forget about the changes we really want. That was my daily schedule.

I can relate very much to all you've mentioned and this is the story of tons of us here. So feel at home, sit down make a coffee and join us.

Remember lets work on TODAY. Today - I will b"eh stay clean. Tomorrow I will deal with tomorrow.

Have a good Shabbos.

--HM

Self-loathing - wow. The title says it all. I loathed myself far too much to stop - I hated myself so much that I needed to escape into perfect sex-land for a while with my hand and imaginary video-friends, too, just like you... till I hated the acting out too much to continue it. But I could not stop, anyhow! Then after getting the help I really needed and being free of it for a while, actually even quitted the self-loathing, too! Took me over a year for that gift, but it was worth it and now its more than a decade later and it's sweet.

The step you just took is huge. Huge.

Hatzlocha. 12 step groups are great, but if your pride will stop you from doing what you really need to do in them, then you will be at the gate and yet not be walking in. Give it up, amigo. Haven't we been humiliated by our out-of-control lust enough?

I have met many guys (in person, of course) who describe exaclty what you are doing, too. There is an answer. You hit the nail on the head - it depends on what steps you are willing to take now. Go in little steps. Do what you can today. And be ready to grow tomorrow and do a tiny bit more with Hashem's help. You are a precious beautiful person and He will help you, and so will your friends who share your problem (us dudes).

Love,

Dov

Hi SL and welcome,
your story sounds very familiar and most of us here are in similar situations. that knowledge itself can help you. you are not alone. there are many, many others who struggle daily and face the same challenges you do. we are all the better if we can share and help each other out.
stay here and read, meet and greet and learn the tools and options that can work for your situation.
Good Shabbos
zs

I am overwhelmed with the quick and warm replies and responses that my post has already received, reading through the responses I had tears flowing down my cheeks.

While I knew that I wasn't alone, I always said that someone that said they were never shichvas zera levatolo was either a liar or a fool, I thought that I had sank to a level that few others have reached.

I went through the "next stage" rationalization,
when I started looking at the pictures (12 y/o) I thought that "once I'm bar mitzvah I'll stop looking, right now I'm just a kid"
After My bar mitzvah it was "when I start Mesivtah" (Which is where I discovered masturbation), followed by "when I start Yeshiva Gedolah", "When I get Married", "When I have a Kid" and "When I have girl" (figuring that the connection between a father and daughter would make me look at the pritzus in another light).

I have passed all those stages, and it hasn't diminished, which is why I sank into the stage of Self-Loathing.

Me3: I can't imagine feeling more desperate than I feel right now, this has interfered with my family life, business and happiness, there are times that I feel like smashing my head through the wall, so much do I hate myself for what I do.

heuni memass: Thanks for the little bit at a time advice, but don't you feel like the weight grows with every passing second, minute, hour and day? I once held myself back for 5 weeks, and when I cracked and gave in it was because I felt like there was a herd of elephants jumping on my heart  and in my mind that didn't let me work or sleep...

Dov: wow! your honesty and and candor is incredible and infectious even through the web! How do you let yourself be so honest?
Honestly I have always been a "self made man", i have incredible, supportive parents, and very loving and supportive wife, but if I ever needed money I found a way to earn it rather than ask anyone for help (starting at age 14), When I decided to quit smoking I did it myself with no aids or therapists/mashpiim, so one of the biggest challenges I have is figuring out why I can't do the same with this, bleeping addiction.

I can't see myself in a physical group or therapy session because I can't have anyone, especially someone that knows me or that I may see again in other surroundings, think of me in that way... I would be constantly mortified.

Zemiros: thanks for your kind words, I want to change and I believe that this may be the forum to help, B'ezras Hashem.

ONe question, while we take it one day at a time, I read in a few stories how people slipped back into their old habits sometimes years after they managed to quit.
While I sometimes feel a longing for a cigarette I never even came close to having one (in 5 years), will I be able to get to the low key longing or will this mountain remain one I constantly have to fight like I do today?

Thanks again for your warm words and encouragement.

Have a great shabbos,
SL

Dear self loathing,

Welcome to gye.
This place has lots of tools to help you shteig.
Don't get overwhelmed.
You'll be able to figure it out soon enough.
Here's the standard welcome package:


Welcome to our community! Once you've arrived, there's no turning back. Everyone here will just grab a hold of you and pull you up, up, up!

Scientific studies have shown that it takes 90 days to change a neural thought pattern that was ingrained in the brain through addictive behaviors. Did you join the 90 day chart on-line? Sign up over here.

Make sure to install a strong filter. It will be almost impossible to break free of this while having all the garbage within a mouse click away. See this page for one good filter option, along with instructions on how to install it best – and give away the password to our "filter Gabai"… See this page for another 20 (or so) filter ideas and information…

We get cries for help every day, by e-mail and on the forum. Tzuras Rabim Chatzi Nechama    And that is why we created the GYE handbooks (links below). If you read them well, from beginning to end, slowly, and try to implement what you read, you will find the answers within them to enable you to completely turn your life around. You're worth it.

Also, join the daily Chizuk e-mail lists to get fresh chizuk every day, and post away on this forum. You will get tons of daily Chizuk and support. This disease can't be beat alone. It works best when you get out of isolation!

GuardYourEyes also offers various free anonymous phone conferences, where you can join a group of other frum Yidden, along with an experienced sponsor. See this page for four different options. Our conferences are taking place daily, throughout the week… This would be a tremendous step in the right direction for you and help you learn freedom from this addiction. Not only will you learn the secret of the 12-Steps – which is known to be the world's most powerful program for beating addiction having helped millions world wide, but joining the group will be another way of GETTING OUT OF ISOLATION and connecting with others who are going through what you are.

Let me tell you a little about the two GuardYourEyes handbooks. They lay down the cornerstone and foundation of our work, and they make our network much more effective and helpful for people.

You see, until now, people would often get "lost" when coming to our website, not knowing what tips and techniques to try. For example, a beginner wouldn't jump straight into therapy or 12-Step groups, while on the other hand, someone whose addiction was more advanced wouldn't be helped by the standard tips of "making fences" putting in "filters" etc… So it was essential to develop a handbook which details all the techniques and tools to dealing with this addiction in progressive order. Now with these handbooks, anyone can read through and see what steps they've tried already, and if those steps haven't worked, they can continue on through the handbook where the steps become progressively more powerful and "addiction-oriented".

And the second handbook, called the "Attitude" handbook, can also help anyone, no matter what level of addiction they may have. Often people write in to us saying that had they only known the proper outlook & attitude that we try and share on the GuardYourEyes network when they were younger, they would have never fallen into an addiction in the first place! So we hope that through this handbook, many addictions will be prevented.

The handbooks are PDF files, set up as eBooks, and they have bookmarks and hyper-links in the Index, to make them easy to navigate.

Note: You might want to print them out to read away from the computer. Keep in mind though, that if you do this, you won't be able to click on the many web links in the articles. But you can always come back to them later. The truth is, it's anyway good to go through the whole handbook once without clicking on links, just to get an overview of all the tools available. Once you did that, you can start again from tool #1 and read each tool through more carefully, click the links and study each technique and assess whether you have tried it fully yet or not…

Right click on the links below and select "Save Link/Target As" to download the handbooks to your computer.

1) The GuardYourEyes Handbook

This Handbook details 18 suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. For the first time, we can gauge our level of addiction and find the appropriate tools for our particular situation. And no matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

2) The GuardYourEyes Attitude

The Attitude Handbook details 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth…

May Hashem be with you!

Hey Self -loathing !

Thank you for writing my history-- very similar to yours!  :-[  Baruch Hashem you have come to the right place.  All of us imperfect people here are right with you, and will help you, and understand you in a way that you never seen before.

Although I understand why you chose your name, I hope that very soon you will בע"ה be able to change it to , after you experience what real change can do for you.  (see my thread for all the hassles they gave me at the beginning)

May I suggest that you spend some time here reading some of the other blogs, and seeing what we all went and are going through, and certainly spending time with some of the basic info that was sent to you.

I woulds also like to suggest that you joined us at a very opportune time.  One of the most wonderful resources of GYE  is the conference call run by Duvid Chaim, and others like it.  This is a call that runs in cycles of six or seven weeks, and goes through the 12 step programs, and life, in wonderful detail.  We are embarking on the next cycle [color=red]this coming Monday, May 16, at High Noon, EDT[/color].  Call in number is 760-569-6000, access code 121318. 

It would really be great if  you could check this out - it really is an amazing experience, and Duvid Chaim is one of the most incredible people I have ever been privileged to "meet".  You don't need to say anything if you don't want to...go ahead and lurk away if you wish, until you are more comfortable joining in.  I assure you, it can be the lifeboat you need to a life changing experience, and you have arrived here right on time to join.

I hope to see you then!

Till then, welcome aboard, and much hatzlacha to you.

Very best wishes,

Good Shabbos

Shmendrick

selfloathing wrote on 13 May 2011 15:11:


SL

I was not referring to how low you have fallen or how miserable it made you feel. I was referring to your commitment to beating this addiction.

If you were as desperate as you claim nothing would matter other then beating this addiction. The more desperate you get the more pride you will be willing to sacrifice to beat it.

I too, still draw lines as to what i am willing to do to beat the addiction, so far what I have done over the last few months is working for me. Will it continue to work? Is it the long term solution?

I don't know? But I do sense that with G-d's help I can succeed, but I at least feel like I'm on the right path.

SL, welcome.  The only thing I can add to the wonderful advice you've already been given is to chime in and assure you that I too have been there done that.  And as to you're pride, we all have plenty of that as well, but at some point many of those here have come to realize that being sober is far more precious and important a commodity.  As to help in dealing with the self-loathing I would suggest you listen to Rabbi Reisman's shuir www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Music/mus/ShiurYesodos.mp3.  Hatzlacha on your journey.

Welcome home friend!  All beginnings are difficult.  It gets easier.  You'll get better at thinking in a new way.  You will be free!  Free to love your family as you really do.  I've been where you are.  It's a powerful drug.  You've come to the right place.  There's no turning back now.  Daven for heavenly assistance. It will come.
Good Shabbos!

BTW, just to share an insight that may or may not be obvious...the pleasure and high of p---, although sexually related, affects different pathways of the brain, ones that are not stimulated by normal relations.  So it's no wonder we can still be looking for this stimulation, this drug, even after a satisfying, loving encounter.

Dear fellow (former) self-loather,

You wrote, "I can't see myself in a physical group or therapy session because I can't have anyone, especially someone that knows me or that I may see again in other surroundings, think of me in that way... I would be constantly mortified."

I can share everything I have with you if you want it, as will others here. But the only thing I want to share right now is that what I quoted from you above may be true right this minute, but it will not always be the truth.

The first time I met a frummie face to face in an SA meeting (when I say "meeting," I only mean live face to face meetings of course), I wanted to dig a hole and disappear! But in five minutes we became friends and I knew that he understands the program's tradition of anonymity. Hey...it's called "Anonymous" because it is.

Since then I have been at seven shabbatons of sex/lust addicts (and many come with their wives, some of whom work their own program of needing recovery from their dependence on their husbands!). I have met hundreds of good, really frum people who have this problem and want recovery. Many do not. But the ones who do, are among my most precious recovery friends now, and for years.

It may be hard to believe, but it seems that the entire 'shyness and secrecy thing' especially to others who are most like us, comes from shame and - you guessed it - self-loathing! 

I know over two hundred frum lust addicts: rebbis, mechanchim, chassidishe and yeshivish, kollel guys, and am very happy to get together with them and freely share quite a bit of my story here, b"H. Any sexaholics anonymous member will do that - and using their real first names - the names their parents or wives call them. No fakerei any more. Honesty is the way to get saved from this, the only way to get the help we really need and the only way to stay healthy, period. Hachno'oh is the gift we need.

Either way, as many have discovered, eventually it boils down to either humility, or humiliation. Real simple. We are exactly as sick as our secrets.

The steps you are taking really are huge. Continued Hatzlocha!!   

Hi there - Welcome!

I know what you mean - sharing about this issue can be so difficult. But that's part of why we're here, because this disease lives in the darkness. And the more we keep it there, the more we twist ourselves to hide our secret, until it effects our lives more and more. (I know Dov already kinda said this, but I started writing this reply hours ago, so I'm keeping it anyway)

As far as what you need to move forward, different people do find that different things work for them. The 12 steps work very well for a lot of people. Some people use some of the concepts from the 12 steps, without using all of them, but I think that the 12 steps are good things to live with, anyway - it's all about bringing hashem into your life in a real way.

Realize that you're far from alone. In various different ways, most of us here have sunk very, very low. What's beautiful is that so many of us have been able to move forward, and grow in a LOT of different ways.

Feel free to read some of my story (just click on the link under my post). One of the things I realized over the time I've been here addresses something you asked:
selfloathing wrote on 13 May 2011 16:49:


One of the things that leads to this is the fact that, well, we think it should. I'm depriving myself of something, so the feeling of deprivation is going to get worse as time goes on, right? Fact is, it's not true. Or, it's only as true as we tell ourselves it is :D

Another part of the problem is when we don't live one day at a time - then it feels like we have an impossible task. Here's why - we have the ability to face the tests we're given. And we're given tests each day. But when we want to stay clean forever, it's like we're trying to face ALL the tests for the rest of our lives, today. And we only have the ability to pass today's tests, today. And that feels impossible. And facing an impossible task, day after day, is going to get more and more difficult and frustrating.

You also said:
selfloathing wrote on 13 May 2011 16:49:


To start with, most people aren't born naturally with some desire to smoke cigarettes, whereas some Lust is natural. We, however, are in even more danger from it than most people, because we already well know the path Lust takes us down.

That said, we can make things easier by making sure we're in touch with ourselves, we stay careful, and we keep getting close to people and Hashem. We can reach the point where we don't usually feel the desperation, the white-knuckling, as we call it, on an everyday level.

Have a great shabbos!

Just to corroborate Dov's story.  I first saw his postings here and then had the opportunity to meet him at one of the Shabbaton's. 

Love you Dov!!!! A gutte voch.

RECOVERY IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!