Rage AT Machine wrote on 06 Oct 2009 21:09:


whatdayya mean, of course Hashem loves us! HUGS!

Ok, ok, I'll stop...

The existence of man is illogical and contradictory to the basic premise of God's existence. Assuming a perfect God, God by definition cannot have needs. Needs imply lack. God cannot have wants. Wants imply lack. A perfect God, a perfect existence cannot lack.
This is the crux of the issue. When we speak of anything to do with man and God, we find it very difficult to work with anything logical.
The explanation brought by the Mekubalim is a concept called Tzimtzum; a limiting. God's perfection is contradictory to man's existence and man to His; how can there be an independent being coexisting with a Truly Perfect being? Does perfection leave room for an indepently willed being - the foundation of free-choice? TzimTzum means that God limited his essence, created a hole of Godlessness, and put man and his world into that void.

Ok, but why? Your question hits deeper then love - even if we do do "what He wants" - why should he care? Why should we exist? Certainly, classic tit-for-tat love doesn't apply to God. How can anyone give to Him? Isn't He perfect?

.................

There is a boundary where we must abandon logic when dealing with God "desires" - as the Derech Hashem writes - he created the world to Give, because he desired to Give. But doesn't that imply a lack - at least in our terms. But God also created logic; by definition we cannot obligate God to our terms of desire, lack and fulfillment.

More later.

Thank you guys for your thoughtful answers. I was thinking in terms of how can Hashem love all of klal yisrael and the secondarily in terms of each individual Jew. after all, the Jewish nation is made up of a bunch of individuals. and while we have gedolim, no doubt, the masses are non-observant. a great many are completely secular. even among the "religious" we have problems. is this what Gd envisioned? a nation of 8% shomrei mitzvoth and of those, 75% sex addicts?

i do like what dov, wrote (and Guard and Letakain allued to), however. Gd loves.

Why He directed it at us is not so important right now. And, derekh agav,  He directed it at us because of our forefathers. We cannot fathom the greatness of our forefathers but essentially what they did was so tremendous that it provides balance to the world today. And we aint that bad either. It wouldve ben so easy to assimilate. We didnt.

Finally, Kedusha, I am aware of the fact that Judaism subscribes to the view that Gd loves us and that Islam believes he did love us but he no longer does and chirstianity believes that he still loves us but only if we start worshipping the man-god and the Hindus have some other view and the Behais yet another and Buddhists something else altogether. But to say that a "Frum" Jew should not question why we believe what we do, and not what they do, is just plain silly (and a very non-Jewish concept).

Rage AT Machine wrote on 07 Oct 2009 14:06:


RAM,

I wasn't challenging the right to ask questions.  Authentic Torah Judaism has no reason to be afraid of sincere questions (although, keep in mind that the authenticity of traditional Jewish belief is a given on the GYE forum).  However, what you wrote sounded more like an answer than a question.

Kedusha: my m.o. is to be provocative and to get people to think so that we can stop posting nonsense about Gd-hugs and really think and write about key and important issues...mixed in with fat jokes...now lets stop hijacking uri's thread...uri, where you at, bro?

I'm here.Just reading this beautiful back and forth on the deepest and most precious of topics
I went to Mea Shearim tonight (breslov,karlin,toldos ahron,etc.)
It was gevaldig
So many yidden just dancing with such tremendous simcha.
I am tired.
I love you guys so much.
And I can't wait for the day when we will have our simchas beis hashoeva by guard's house when moshiach comes.
Layla tov
Lots of hugs and kisses
Chag Sameach
-uri

guardureyes wrote on 06 Oct 2009 22:17:

;D

Rabbeinu, my lawyers are telling me that you may have violated my GUI name with that.
They are itching to sue, but I'm telling them its hopeless, since you are also the Supreme Judge .
Do you think you can be impartial?

Uri wrote on 06 Oct 2009 07:26:


;D

Uri, just saw your reply... you made my YT!

Its good for me to get responses like that to things I write... I think I'm gonna be in a good mood for a little while

best,
k

Rage AT Machine wrote on 07 Oct 2009 14:06:


Chazal say that Moshiach can come to a generation that is totally evil. I believe that Rav Dessler explains this to mean that eveyone will realize that they are morally banktrupt and that will make them seek Hashem for real. Chazal talk of a great famine before Mashiach comes(see the Targum on the first pasok of Rus). They say it will be a spiritual famine. One where the lack of knowing G-d will cause us immense pain, pain like being very hungry for along time. Can you compare this to modern society?

People should  think about their faith but only if they are really open to thinking honestly and logically. Otherwise they are not thinking, they are out to look for excuses. You cannot talk to a five year logically about faith.  This all may not be for the forum.

Holy Yid wrote on 08 Oct 2009 02:44:


Chazal?!?! Amos 8:11-12

הִנֵּה יָמִים בָּאִים, נְאֻם אֲדֹנָי יְהוִה, וְהִשְׁלַחְתִּי רָעָב, בָּאָרֶץ:  לֹא-רָעָב לַלֶּחֶם, וְלֹא-צָמָא לַמַּיִם--כִּי אִם-לִשְׁמֹעַ, אֵת דִּבְרֵי יְהוָה.  וְנָעוּ מִיָּם עַד-יָם, וּמִצָּפוֹן וְעַד-מִזְרָח; יְשׁוֹטְטוּ לְבַקֵּשׁ אֶת-דְּבַר-יְהוָה, וְלֹא יִמְצָאוּ

I am a big believer in allowing people to make whatever religious choices they want. Derekh agav, Gd also believes this.

Rage AT Machine wrote on 08 Oct 2009 21:13:


The pasok does not say when those days will come

Amos 9:13-15 clarifies:

הִנֵּה יָמִים בָּאִים, נְאֻם-יְהוָה, וְנִגַּשׁ חוֹרֵשׁ בַּקֹּצֵר, וְדֹרֵךְ עֲנָבִים בְּמֹשֵׁךְ הַזָּרַע; וְהִטִּיפוּ הֶהָרִים עָסִיס, וְכָל-הַגְּבָעוֹת תִּתְמוֹגַגְנָה.  יד וְשַׁבְתִּי, אֶת-שְׁבוּת עַמִּי יִשְׂרָאֵל, וּבָנוּ עָרִים נְשַׁמּוֹת וְיָשָׁבוּ, וְנָטְעוּ כְרָמִים וְשָׁתוּ אֶת-יֵינָם; וְעָשׂוּ גַנּוֹת, וְאָכְלוּ אֶת-פְּרִיהֶם.  טו וּנְטַעְתִּים, עַל-אַדְמָתָם; וְלֹא יִנָּתְשׁוּ עוֹד, מֵעַל אַדְמָתָם אֲשֶׁר נָתַתִּי לָהֶם--אָמַר, יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ.

kutan shel hachabura wrote on 08 Oct 2009 02:00:

Does their itching have anything to do with kinim?

Shalom to all,
I want to post a few things that are on my mind,so here goes...

I did not come here to fix my lust addiction.
I came here to fix my life.

Uri wrote on 16 Jul 2009 19:45:


The sex was just another part of it all.
And it was the most intimate part,and it took me the deepest into myself.
So I figured that if I fix it,I will be very far down the way of recovery.
I now know that this idea was 100% true.

I suffer from many things:
Depression,anxiety,indecisiveness,to name a few...

Now I am going through the process of rebuilding myself and I've been feeling these things pretty strongly at times,but overall I feel myself changing,shifting perspective,and getting stronger,baruch Hashem.

Depression has played a huge part in (ruining) my life for as long as I can remember.
Last night I realized something.
I have 3 basic insecurities:
1)My insecurity about depression
2)My insecurity about being a smoker (low-class/lacks control of self)
3)My insecurity about being insecure

I have been taught 2 basic ideas about depression from my parents:
1)People don't like depressed people
2)If you are depressed,it means you have a bad atitude or did something wrong

I have thus chosen to hide in my shell whenever I feel a bout of depression coming on.
I disconnect from my life and the world.
And then I get really depressed.
My parents are wrong.
People have moods.
Sometimes you are happy.Sometimes you are sad.
Mostly you are in between.
And pretty much everyone understands that.
If I can work on not panicking every time I get depressed,my depression can more probably stay within reason.
Depression is okay
It happens.
It's not our fault (or very rarely is).
I will not let these stupid inherited notions stop me from living.
I will smile through it all.
Depression is in Hashem's hands.
What I do without is in my hands.

Chag Sameach
-uri

i can relate re: the smoking...i gave it up a little over a year ago...i hated myself for smoking more than anything else...i will have an occasional cigarette or a hooka once every six months or so but i feel so much better now...

re: depression, i also relate...i went through a horrible depression when i was you age...

i cant believe how advanced you are for your age..youre really on the right track and waaaaay ahead of the game...

keep your chin up and keep pushing...

כִּי יֵשׁ שָׂכָר לִפְעֻלָּתֵךְ נְאֻם-ה, וְיֵשׁ-תִּקְוָה לְאַחֲרִיתֵךְ, נְאֻם-ה

Rage, I totally agree! (hey, I don't tell everyone that they'll be GYE Rosh yeshiva/admor- one day). This kid has some SERIOUS wisdom and a really beautiful soul!!

Did you see his answer to Trying recently? SMITHEREEEEEEEENS!

P.S. Yeh, but Uri ... you know that fantasy of typing replies with your toes while smoking a cigar and drinking Woodford? Not gonna happen. (Cuz by then you'll have quit SMOKING!!  ;D)