cande wrote on 01 Nov 2024 00:45:

OK so let's put it all on hold until I make an educated decision about my next steps in life..
I'll update you here in a few days and after that we'll wrap it up.
Is that better R' Cande?

upanddown wrote on 01 Nov 2024 00:25:

Yup he's got it.

upanddown wrote on 01 Nov 2024 01:01:

FANTASTIC!
im fed up of you, going in circles for the past 5 years.
love you bro,

cande'

upanddown wrote on 31 Oct 2024 12:42:

Wow "no words". Though this being GYE, we always want to give our 2 cents!

I'm confused though, are you in EY or America or someplace else? Getting different vibes and despite this being GYE I do want to be somewhat targeted and clearly I think the environments are very different...

kavey wrote on 01 Nov 2024 04:06:

Somewhere else on this planet... but I know the world in EY and USA very well. Been everywhere for extended time and have global connections. (can't compare btw, I believe the situation in the USA in general is definitely much more normal in this respect.)

The Torah was given for every place though. And the Torah and Chazal very much emphasise the importance of a man working and learning, as it was throughout all our generations. תורה שיש עמה מלאכה משכחת עוון etc. There are just too many people struggling and I believe 50% of yungeleit in Kollelim would do much better if they were to get themselves a job. Their yiddishkeit would be better. Their learning would be better. And they wouldn't be talking about money all day...
Don't get me wrong. I myself am very pro Torah learning, I give gemara Shiurim, I have yeshiva students and encourage them to learn.
But it's just too upsetting to watch and experience the negative impact the system has on so many people.

But I'll first focus on myself before fixing the world.
And I'll do it fast.
I'm pertrified of cande...

Ok you come across as someone who's able to think deeply, is self aware and is able to communicate coherently in writing. A great combo! Looking to hear more about your journey..

Maalah Maalah!

"Yoirdei hayam baunious" getting into the sea in a boat >the system<

"Yaalu shamaim" >up<

"Yeirdu tehomos" >and down<

"Nafsham be'raah tismogug" their souls feel shattered and broken 

"Yachoigu v'yanuyu kashickor" they feel like drunkards being controlled by other powers 

"Vechul chachmusum tisbalu" they're literally loosing their minds.

"Vayitzaku El hashem batzar lahem" >the last weeks post was one soul crying and yelling to hashem about his pain<

"Umimtzukoseihem yatzileim vayakeim seara lidmama vayecheshu galeihem" and hashem heard his cries and calmed down the waves.

And now all your best friends here on GYE pray that "Vayismachu ki yoshtoiku" you shall find peace and happiness with yourself

"vayancheim El mechoz cheftzam" and you shall find your place that will give you happiness and make you feel accomplished and good with yourself.



These were my thoughts and tears Friday night when saying hoidu. And I'm sure all your other friends here think about you all day and night.

We really care and cry for you we feel your pain and look forward to seeing you get out of it very soon.



Crying and praying for you With love akiva

Rebakiva, you're the sweetest soul!
Thanks for that.
I'm very touched!
Need a lot of ס”ד to work things out this week...

Interesting… this week when saying Nishmas, I was thinking about מציל עני מחזק ממנו, who’s the Oni and who’s this Chozzok Mimenu? For me… it myself and my addiction!
Ultimately Hashem is at our side and pulling us out of the dirt, as long as we’re trying and showing that we’re הבא לטהר 

Just read through this thread for the first and second time. (I read it twice.) Up and Down, I don’t have much to add to the chorus of Chizzuk on this thread. I’d also like to take the opportunity to express my admiration to a stalwart soldier that doesn’t give in, despite the great temptation to do so. I love the brutal honesty expressed within the pages here, the honest frustrations, the real shares. One thing is clear, even when you’re down, your guilty conscious hasn’t allowed you the freedom to just give up and do what you want, despite the great temptation to do so.

If I can add a small observation which hit me as I was going through the pages of your thread. It seems to me, that you somewhat resent your guilty conscious. As you expressed it so well in the words of חז"ל that say- "אוי לי מיוצרי אוי לי מיצרי". The simple understanding of these words, is that we’re in a catch 22 situation. We can never have peace. Either we’re gonna get killed by ה' - יוצרי if we indulge in sin, or we’re gonna get killed by our YH -  יצרי if we abstain. He doesn’t give us any peace, and he’s constantly nagging us to indulge. This constant battle seems like a “lose lose” situation, and can be extremely frustrating at times, especially when we’re feeling uninspired, tired, and sluggish. 

Perhaps it’s possible to slightly reframe the words of חז"ל to mean as follows. אוי לי מיוצרי if I sin, and in order to prevent me from sinning - אוי לי מיצרי he gave me a יצר טוב that doesn’t allow me to enjoy what I want to do, he gives me a guilty conscious that plagues me to no end and doesn’t allow me to enjoy what I “want” to.

Even if it’s not פשט in the 'גמ, there’s still an important point to be made. A healthy guilty conscious, is a manifestation of the pure part of the נשמה that’s not allowing the soul to get tainted. If your experiencing feelings of anger and frustration at not being able to let go and indulge, it’s a sure sign that you have a thriving and healthy יצר טוב (TO YOUR CREDIT) that’s not allowing it. Not everyone one has that guilty conscious. Indulging enough, will whittle it away little by little. If you’ve got it, it’s a סימן that your fighting hard, engaged in תורה and מצות to the extent that it’s not letting go of you. Embrace it, and thank 'ה for the gift of the guilty conscious, that to your credit, perhaps unintentionally and even against your will, you’ve developed inside of you.

Thank you @amevakesh for the Chizuk!
I've been struggling emotionally and spiritually these days (had a few slips but no falls bh) - you've definitely lifted my spirits!
I like your vort (as you said not davka the פשט, just the יסוד)... Will take it with me and think about it... it's not easy to embrace a feeling that is haunting you.. 

upanddown wrote on 12 Nov 2024 12:50:

Maybe reach out to him...he is even better over the phone - personal experience...

Oh how I wish I could undo what I did today...
How I wish i could delete this day from the calendar...
It was a nice streak of 187 days... 

Truth is, this time I don't even blame myself for giving in. I was going through a lot of stress and an emotional upheaval (re-living childhood trauma) and feeling resentful towards my Yiddishkeit. I was trying to shake everything off. So I'm happy it was 'just' this.... 

But I'm so upset. Why didn't I remember what it feels like afterwards?! As soon as "it's done", I close all the tabs and run to GYE! I even found myself learning with a Geshmak and writing a Chaburah a few minutes after my fall... (I'm sure everyone can relate to this). It's just insane. I feel like the יצר הרע and יצר הטוב run this amusement park together and take us on roller coaster rides.. it definitely leaves you feeling sick.

So what change will I do for the future?
Good question.
Maybe to make more of an effort to call my GYE-friends when it's tough...
Meanwhile my filter is back on.

Just remember that you were clean for 187 days. Today may have broken your streakand are starting a new one, but make tomorrow day 188 clean. 

Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!

Hey, here’s a warm hand. 
Make sure you hang in extra tight the next 12-24 hours or so. The YH loves to sabotage Chevra with a secondary “what-the-hell” fall, and that one hurts more. There’s poison and pain and maybe fire in your veins now, hang on! We’re here with you. In a day or three will be time enough to think about lessons you can learn from this. For now- holding pattern. 

You’re a good man. 
Hang tight, 
Chaim