hi. im starting to work on freeing myself of all the garbage, and i wondered if having a female friend (non-jewish) is a problem for healing myself? 1) im married. 2) we only chat on the phone. 3) we dont chat about sex, just friends.

Hi HashemLN Your question could be understood in different ways not sure which way to go. One thing i do know is that when two totally strangers start chatting it can cause,very often , a "click" between them that its end is not apparently seen from the beginning but many homes,families and plain people where destroyed by it. So if you want to "free yourself from all the garbage" as you eloquently posted,then what good are you going to gain from this relationship;maybe none. What bad could come out of it ? I would say, plenty maybe more.

Welcome,

Perhaps ask your wife.

B'hatzlachah

ואל תרבה שיחה עם האשה, באשתו אמרו, קל וחמר באשת חברו.
מכאן אמרו חכמים: כל המרבה שיחה עם האשה, גורם רעה
לעצמו, ובוטל מדברי תורה.. וסופו יורש ג יהנם

hashemlnegdi wrote:

"Female Friend" ?

for a person who is working on "freeing myself from all the garbage", don't you thing the term "female friend" is a stirah minei ubei?

You want friendship? camaraderie? connect with the guys on this forum.
Not only will you be as safe as can be - they will help you be zoche for happiness in both worlds!

cordnoy wrote:


Priceless!!

Ditto!

EXTREMELY DANGEROUS FOR ANYONE, ESPECIALLY FOR SOMEONE TRYING TO RECOVER!

אע"פ שאני מכיר את מיעוט ערכי נגד אחי הנ"ל, מוכרח אני להורות כפי מה שנלע"ד בנידון דידן אף שזה מתנגד קצת עם מה שכתבו אחי


תשובה לרב "השם לנגדי", כנראה על שם הפסוק: שיויתי ה' לנגדי תמיד:


reb HLN,

i may be totally out of line, i beg your forgiveness in advance if i am. my only redeeming excuse is that i am putting myself on a limb for you because i care. i am risking having moderators shut me down (one of whom already may have it in for me - and may be itchin' to pull the CORD). i never met you, but i feel i know you, and maybe i went through something somewhat similar. so here goes.

my dear brother, what in the HELL did you think we would tell you? go ahead, keep schmoozing up this shiksa? that nothing bad could possibly come of it - all of the stories you hear that begin on the phone and end up at a cheap motel room - הני מילי other people but you are invincible? and the hirhurim, yichud, negia, etc. - chazal were obsessively paranoid when they thought up those things? that it was ok as long as you made sure your wife would never find out? or perhaps that you should tell your wife, but she should understand and be ok with it (after all, its your right!)? that we were all also doing this on the side? that it would NOT eradicate all of your efforts to get the shmutz out of your system? or that this is NOT textbook טובל ושרץ בידו?


but i think you know all of this. you seem far too intelligent to think otherwise. HELL, as far as i am concerned if you can wipe yourself, you're far too intelligent to think otherwise. you know EXACTLY what רפואה קודם למחלה means, and you know DAMN well that what you are doing with this shiksa is מחלה קודם לרפואה.

so why do you ask our advice?

can it be that breaking up with her is harder than you wish it was? that you dread doing it, and the mere thought of never talking to her again makes you really really lonely.

and you think maybe.... just maybe... one person has a way...

but deep down you know that it is impossible.

so here is where i will deviate from my brothers. instead of telling you it is wrong and you should stop it if you what is good for you, and bringing you from pirkei avos and what not, i will assume that you know all of the rhetoric already. instead, i will challenge you.

if it is in fact so hard to break up with this shiksa, maybe the relationship has already metastasized from friend, into something more? or maybe it was never "just friends" to begin with? you can find plenty of male "friends", case in point - on gye alone you have the closest of friends with all kinds and backgrounds. all men.

but perhaps she gives you something that no one else can give you. maybe she has occupied a more significant place in your life than just friend. a place that should have been occupied by others? say.... .... .... (anyone?)

even more reason to let her go.

something else my brothers did not say: can it be that this shiksa is to some degree the cause of the severity of the shmutZ challenges?

if i am totally off base, again, my dear dear HLN i am sooooo sorry (imagine a frowny face emoticon here, times ten with tears. bawling if they make that kind. if not, they should make it for this occasion).

if not, listen up, and take it from me, cuz it gets better:

at first it will be hard. but as long as you have gye, you will have all kinds of friends, and as long as you dont want to be alone, you wont be alone. וכנ"ל

the rest? recovery will help you improve your relationship with your wife, and what this shiksa "was" - לשון עבר בדווקא כן יהי רצון giving you exceeding regular friendship, you may find with her, the way it was intended.

i will end once again with my sincere apologies if i am off base. but you understand if i was not, why it was important for it to be said. kol shekain if someone reading it can takka gain from it.

if only someone would have broken it down for me like this when i needed.........

frowny face וכנ"ל

Excellent stuff.
I would just add (clarify, really) that we addicts
A. need to escape our reality
B. have big challenges with true intimacy.

Having a phone relationship with a woman is a nice way to escape our current reality (marriage, family). It also replaces the void we feel because we're not connecting deeply to our wives.

So this phone relationship is a double-edged sword.
It may be feeding the addiction by engaging in conversation with a woman who is not your wife.
It may be preventing the healing and bonding you need to do with your family as part of recovery.

Please don't let us scare you away. You bravely asked a loaded question and got some honest answers from fellow strugglers who want to see you succeed.
Maybe tell us a little about yourself and your struggles.
Let's be friends.

AlexEliezer wrote:


ונאמר אמן

Take a chill pill. If I received your comment as a newcomer, you'd never see me here again.

AlexEliezer wrote:


These lines are מעט מחזיק את המרובה.
You know me better than i know myself.

AlexEliezer wrote:


Couldn't agree more.
No phone relationships!

but he's still right. and one of the biggest challenges here is dropping that friend..