pidaini, never give up the fantasies about being a tzaddik. just change the timeline. it doesn't need to be next week. we have a whole lifetime to get there. after we get through theses issues we should be able to zoom through the next levels, so we should be able to catch up (with who? I don't know, maybe with our dreams from ten years ago) pretty quickly.

imperfection, I agree, and we have to know that we are in an ongoing relationship with Hashem. similarly to the ,many threads where the chevra discussed the healing process with their wives once their addictions came into the open. so too with our relationship with Hashem, once we fess up to the fact that this is a part of who we are we can work on the healing process in out relationship with Hashem. In fact it might be easier, because we know for sure that as low as a yid can fall, Hashem will never give him a divorce and leave him on his own.

So this double life business is keeping my mind a little busy, i see that now that i have been clean for several days, i am starting to question in my mind whether i really belong to this whole GYE business. what's the big deal, so I had a yetzer harah attack, I am not so entrenched in the lust business like other people here, so what am i doing here? fake user name and secret email address and everything......

then it hit me, the yetzer harah is so smart. Of course i feel this way. once i spent a few days away from watching P** and M***, i got back to my self that i look at as my real self. Now i can deny that I (with a capital I ) actually have a P** and M** problem. that is some other guy. forget about him. he went into hiding so i think he doesn't exist anymore.....until next time.

so i came back to the realization that in order for me to deal with this once and for all it is so important for me to remember that it is ME that was watching P** and it was ME that was M*** last week . I have to always be aware that I have these issues and always be on the lookout (for the yetzer hara, not the girls) and alert to prevent the yetzer harah from sneaking in again.

unanumun wrote:


Please check out my post called "Captain Kirk Syndrome", or something like that, on the forum.

Also, two things:

1- Many guys come here and say they have a problem that started a few months ago, or a few years ago...but when we talk for a while on the phone and clarify things, get comfortable talking and being real, and compare notes - it becomes obvious to them that they have been struggling and losing badly for a much longer time. Sex and lust had become a much bigger issue than normal, much longer ago...it just did not manifest itself in things that OTHER people might possibly notice, till lately. Lemoshol, internet use that could be caught, a job that could be lost, or a wife that cares and we no longer living the 'free and unobserved life of a bochur' any more, etc. So the emotional importance of the entire issue was not admitted by them till recently! Before it was just theoretical...now there are just real stakes/possible consequences involved. But the behavior and obsession is exactly the same.

That admission is precious, when it is the truth. Of course, there are many here who are not addicts at all. I would suggest that most here probably are not addicts. I'd suggest that many are here because they simply love the sweet way porn makes them feel, the way masturbating to orgasm (sex on demand) feels, and are terribly guilt-ridden because this stuff happens to be a sin. Same as many religious goyim, exactly. And those concerns are not necessarily related to addiction.

It is the guy who is honest enough with himself to admit that he really cannot stop, even if he hates the acting out...and the guy who feels clear he must stop - not because of someone else's (G-d's) will, but because of their own will. They simply cannot stand being played with like this, being the fool again and again, and doing things they really do not want to do and being the jackass. The dissonance is killing them. They are ready to do anything to stop.

And plenty here have said (posted really, not said), "I would do anything to stop!" - but when asked to talk openly on the phone with a sober addict, they say "Oh, not that...I am not 'ready' for that yet." When they are asked if they really told their rebbi exactly what they have been doing, how often, and under what exact circumstances (instead of just saying to their rebbis: "Um, I was nichshal a lot in zera levatola...you know...and shmiras eynayim...you know what I mean, right?"). Gevalt, we ask a shayloh but do not give the details for a real shayloh, out of shame or silly 'tziyus' or 'lashoin nekiyah'...

Some here are really fine, just struggling with the normal yetzer hora. But some here are addicts like I am, and have a real problem that will ruin things and never get better without real help.

2- You write about realizing and remembering "that it was ME who does those things, etc." I agree and that is what the Captain Kirk post is about. But the main point/proposal of that post is this:

Only a 3rd party can bring the two aspects of our behavior (the double life) together as one. You and me ourselves cannot really do that sufficiently.

Think about it. We can talk about it on the phone if you like, or - virtually, if you must - here. Rabban Yochanan ben Zakai taught his talmidim that before he died. 'Between me and Hashem' is really not real enough to us, period. And he was talking to tanno'im in training!

This is connected to the price of taking a real life with real consequences while being a little boy who needs to feel that warm sweet feeling of sex (masturbation is just sex with ourselves) when he wants it. And it is not just sex, but all the adventure and searching for it, struggling with it, winning, losing, etc, does for us.

One more thing...I posted a thing called "The Nuclear Reset Button" - it explains a bunch too. Your call. You can find the posts I refer to if you want to, on Gibbor120's thread.



Hatzlocha,

Dov

Click the "dov quotes" link in my signature. Maybe you should put it in your signature too dov .

I know I keep making your signature longer and longer, oh well.

unanumun wrote:


I also sometimes wonder what I am doing here. I have done less than you. It has not really affected the rest of my life. I do not know whether I am a "true" addict or not.

I do know however, that before coming to GYE, reading about the 12 steps, reading the chizuk e mails, and participating in the forums, I was not able to "beat" this Yetzer. So if that's what I need to do, why not? It's no disgrace to be here. The disgrace is not to deal with these problems.

Hatzlocho and thank you for staying!!

I got thinking about this thread again. It's been a long time since I thought about it.

I don't have this feeling anymore Baruch Hashem.
At first I thought that it is because I have been clean for a few months. But I realized that can't be the reason. Porn and masturbating is still a part of my very recent past and has yet to fade to a distant memory.
In addition I still have nisyonos of shmiras eynayim in the street and stuff, so that is not the reason.
I came to the realization that the reason is because, yes, I have broken out of isolation. I have a whole group of friends that I can share my thoughts about these nisyonos and fights. Even though I still remain anonymous (at least I still think no one knows who I am) I have posted, read other's posts, and joined the conversation in the forum. I have chatted and emailed several of the guys, and even spoke on the phone to three of them. (well perhaps a fourth if you count 20 seconds)
Even though I remain anonymous and no one really knows too many details of the rest of my life, it is no longer living a double life. Just as my partners at work don't know details about my home life, and my friends from shul don't know what is really going on behind the scenes in my work, not everyone has to know everything. That is a normal part of relationships.
so thanks to all of you

Thank You!!

I can relate, and the reason for me is simple, because I am no longer living a double life!! I now look at myself squarely, honestly, and take me for who I am, unlike before where I was trying to hide from myself....of course I felt like I was living a double life.....because I was!

Thank you again!

That is 100% true!

Don't let anyone convince you that you have to broadcast your situation to the public in order to "open up." It is important to open up to real people; that makes a hell of a difference. People knowin' who you are helps with recovery; it is not a sure fix, but helpful.

Keep it up soldier!

b'hatzlachah

Double life problem? Hah I have the same issue. I'm not even Jewish.

Joenoahi wrote:


You may not be Jewish, but I see from your post that you are human.

Wow, this is a beautiful thread. 'Beautiful' meaning real.

At least a start at real...

Dov wrote:


Definitely. This is the same way as any other bad habit -- like laziness to say prayers and keep other laws.

I do keep some laws -- Sabbath and holidays, I do not eat nonkosher food although I do not have kosher dishes.

I have written to you my own thoughts and ideas about your particular situation many times last year, chaver. And whether you are an addict or not, is water under the bridge by now - just please keep taking good care of yourself.

Dov wrote:


Thanks. Can anyone help me find telephone friends -- men my age -- to discuss general issues like depression and midlife crisis?

So the two captain Kirk's have officially collided. I told my wife over the last week (posts to come about that on my regular thread) and boom!!!! everything that has been said about breaking down the barriers between the two worlds being important for recovery has become clear to me.
For the first time, I had the REAL feeling that the ME that everyone knows has had a problem with porn and masturbation. It was a very humbling experience. As the dust settles and the emotions come to grips with it, it is becoming a real freeing and growing experience as well.
This thread was the first one that I started, and now I guess I can say that to a large extent, the thread has ended.
Yes, most people that I interact with don't know my secrets, but there are plenty other secrets they don't know about me. The only one who knew everything about me except for these issues was my wife. And now she knows absolutely everything about me, so with the help of the Ribbono Shel Oilam and all the wonderful fellow members of GYE, I can say with tears in my eyes,