ok so i am new here (maybe i'll get to the "introduce myself" forum eventually)
One big idea that hit me based on some of the things I read here is this Double Life business. Aparently there are alot of people that have been or are distubed by what seems to be a contradiction between their public life and their "private" life. I have seen people saying that owning up to your proble in "real" life is important and helps start the process of recovery. this has led to some introspection and i thought i would share some thoughts here because obviously at this point i have nowhere else and i have also seen over the last few days that expressing what's in your mind helps.
I have been noticing that in my life, besides the P and M thing, i have several areas in which i sort of run away from who i really am. or more specifically i have manage to split my life into several facets. people who know me from one part of my life, for example, the shul where i learn, know me as a different person than the people in the shul that i am heavily involved in. and i have many small things like that. I have a wide variety of friends ranging from guys that I talk politics or joke around with, to the guys that I speak to in learning. they all think i am one of them.
perhaps i have a hard time coming to grips with, or rather merging all these aspects of my life into the one person that i really am. perhaps the time has come to ralize that these are all the real me and then i will actually have to admit that part of the real me is addicted to porn and not some anonymous guy behind closed doors that no one knows.
interesting idea. a bit overwhelming but a new way to look at my life. Heck, i may just end up growing from this whole ordeal. which might just be why Hashem has sent this nisayon down my path.

unanumen hi!

very well said thats a very strong point of our issues that we are not being honest with who we really are i feel the same way as you and i'm sure that this honesty will help us in general not just with p and m , but learning to know who we really are is part of living real life so go onward with this and it will make you much happier even if in the begging it's not very comfortable.

kol tuv!!

I too have many friends that are from different places. When I am with less religious friends, I talk about less religious things. Same thing with my more religious friends. I've never viewed it as hypocritical, fake or anything like that. I just enjoy being friends with these people.
Everyone always acts different around certain people. That's how we are. I have a political side, a fun side, and a religious side to me. So depending on who I am hanging out with determines which side of me I will show.
As long as you aren't lying to your friends I don't see how you should feel like a faker.

Yes, I can relate to this - being different is shul, in learning, at work, at home.
Why can't we have different aspects?
The point is though, that all aspects of living and of life are united by the Echod of Hashem. To us puny human beings, everything looks different, disconnected. The truth ( which we can not fully grasp) is that all the aspects are part of the Oneness of Hashem.

The trouble with the lusting in all its aspects, is that we are not seeing this urge as a way of coming towards Hashem. We view it as a way of grabbing pleasure independently. Our holy task is to understand that this "different" aspect of ourselves is no less holy that our learning or davening, and to accept Hashem's malchus even on this "lowly" (which is really very elevated) aspect of our existence.

In a way we who struggle with this urge are privileged to be forced to see Hashem in all aspects of our lives, in order to recover.

Looking forward to hearing more from you!

I also suffer from DLS. Trying to get into recovery has changed me, and brought different sides of me to different people. When it is said to open up in real life, I don't take that to mean that I need to call my mother and tell her, "Ma, I watch pornography". It means opening up to safe people who won't be affected or feel guilty and being honest about my feelings with them. Slowly I come to realize that being honest isn't wrong and being imperfect is perfect.

letitbegin,it is not just about haveing different sides that you show to different people. that is normal and not a fake. that is because you know that these are different aspects of who YOU are.
what i was talking about is when you have a situation that you sort of trick people. like for example (not me) if a guy at work lets everyone think that he is single (on purpose) or his family thinks that he is in kollel but is really going to work, that is a double life.
when you hang out with your less religious friends do you pretend that you don't daven or go to shul? that would be faking something.
i know for example that when i started getting involved in a moisad and left kollel i would be in places and pretend that i was a kollel guy, i realize now that it wasn't really out of embarasement like i thought, rather i hadn't come to terms with the fact the i was not in kollel and was trying in a certain sense to hold on to some corner of the world where i was still what i thought as myself as.
as time went on and i basically merged my real ME into a guy who is also a former kollel guy and also the baal moisad, now i do have people that know me more from the learnig and shtayging guy and some more from the moisad angle. but both know that i am also the other at the same time and the context of my connection is the main way that they see me but not to the exclusion of the other. sort of like a child sees his father who is a rebbe and has talmidim, as opposed to the talmid who sees his father that also has children.
in this contect the P*** and M*** issue has been a completely private world (it still is but i have some kind of anonymous community in that provate world now)no one knows it exists. and i think in a certain sense, the real ME wasn't allowed into that world either. it was like i was leaving my ME and moving into a different person. realizing this and talking to people here has moved slowly to realizing that it IS me and I better deal with it if I don't want my ME to have this as part of who he is.
hope that clarify my thoughts a little

Imperfection wrote:

I don't how much lust is different in this aspect then eating or sleeping or kosher sex with one's wife. are all those area really focused at all on serving Hashem. maybe by you, but i am not that holy. (yet- working on it, it's in my plans)
the only difference might be that one is an aveirah and one is not. but as one of my rebbeim told me years ago (about a diffrent issue) when i was becoming a ben torah, "guilt is ok- just save it for yom kippur, in the meantime move on" or as they say here (or used to) keep on trucking!!

unanumun wrote:



very good hesber

Excellent hesber-now ask yourself a simple question-what world you do really value and what means the most to yourself now.

unanumun wrote:


they still do

Keep on MONSTER trucking!!!!!!!!

SIB101854 wrote:

i don't think that is the next stage. i think that it is more complex. i don't thing i will be able to just wipe out one world. i think that as long as i don't fess up and merge the P and m world into my real ME and realize that it is also a part of me, then i will never stop. because then it remains being some other guy so to speak and even if i don't go into a phone booth and switch to stupidman mode, that guy still exists but i keeping away from him for the time being.
once i realize that the porn addict (or just stam watcher- not sure yet if it is addiction, still working that out) is really me i will be able to control him and maybe (just maybe- halevay) wipe him out altogether.

No, I am not that holy. If I would be, I wouldn't be here.

I am also not qualified to give advice. However, I can share some of my experiences, and I hope that this may help you.

Before I came to GYE, I also used to compartmentalise my life. Learning -very good. Davening - good. Shelom Bayis - pretty good but sometimes a bit of anger. Relationship with parents - outwardly good, but deep inside, lots of resentment. And Lust - bad.
So I always worked on the different compartments, especially lust which I believed was my worst problem. There were many successes, and the problem was limited to a little corner called unfiltered internet. I believed that as long as I could avoid this, I would be okay. AFter all, my lusting was totally inconsistent with the rest of my life. It must be that that it had nothing to do with me. The problem was the wicked internet. I just had to avoid it.
However, lust always seem to return, and despite my efforts internet always seemed to come my way. Was Hashem telling me something.

So in GYE, I discovered a different approach. We are not compartments. We are whole beings. Lust is part of us, created by Hashem like anything else. If lust is out of control, then this is a symptom, not the actual disease. It must be coming from anger, resentment, egoism, and most of all, an unwillingmess to accept Hashem into our lives.

This is when change started. For a long time, I would still fall, but my thinking changed. Eventually, I got clean, although even now I have my ups and downs.

The purpose of GYE is not to eradicate lust or even acting out. It is there to give us a Toradik and honest approach to dealing with lust

You say that not all the areas are fully focussed on serving Hashem. Neither are mine. But I am trying to stop resisting letting Hashem run my life. There is big difference.

You asked if it is early for you to take on the 90 day chart. It is wonderful. But the main thing is not the acting out or not. The main thing is the change in direction. Being "clean" is the result. It may take time.

Really, I must thank you very much. For a week, I was in a lust cycle because of a sight that I saw. I almost fell. Your post reminded me not to focus on the lust. I accepted that I was imperfect, that I needed to accept Hashem. To stop being angry and resentful. Like magic, the lust lost its power.

THANK YOU!!!

imperfection, i read your post and then reread the first one. i think i understand more what you are trying to say.
I guess there is a difference between eating sleeping and kosher relations with a wife on one side and lust on the other. with all the first ones while we may have kavanos to fulfill our physical desires and pleasures, there is nothing inside us resisting Hashem joining us keveyachol. sort of like i am eating now because that looks like a good steak but if theoretically i could do THAT leshem shamayim,that's fine with me. (heck, i might even be able to come up with some reason why eating the juicy steak IS leshem shamayim - after all i'll feel good and be healthy and be able to learn and daven once i am full)we don't have to feel like we are blocking Hashem out of our life.
Uber, Lust....no way to work that one out. we are forcing Hashem out. there is no real way to include Him and we know it deep down. perhaps that is what makes it stand out of having to bring Hashem into our lives in that area and i guess that only was is to bring him in abstinence. to help us and to remove the lust from our heads (and wherever else it may be lurking)
does this fit in to what you are trying to say, from a different angle.
the truth is now that you have brought me to this understanding that brings me to another amazing realization. there have been times that I sort of felt that I am acting out because of frustration and i would get upset at Hashem in a way (as emabarising as it it to admit) and rebelling. it is something that i never ever felt in any of the other aspects of my life. not in any other area of halacha. not even when i wasn't in the mood to learn. it always struck me as strange. it was the most distinct kavana in מחל לנו מלכינו כי פשענו because that is expained as mered. i never could put my finger on why. but i guess that is it.
so Thank YOU!!!

unanumun wrote:


I've had that many more times than just times! Especially when I was trying really hard, when I tried davening better, learning more, shemiras einayim, etc. and then the desire would still be there. I'd be fuming at Hashem and therefore I'd "punish" Him, "you wanna see what i can really do?! I'll show you!!"

Accepting what Hashem wants from us, giving up our fantasies, even fantasies about being "tzaddikim", is a life changer, and a lifetime effort.

KOP and KOMT!!!

I felt that I was resisting Hashem in different areas, but it expressed itself in lust.

In any case, you have to know yourself. It's taking me a long time to see these things in myself - and I am still learning.

Just don't forget, accepting Hashem into your life does not mean that you immediately stop lusting. Accept Hashem, wherever you are holding. Then you can slowly begin to get out of the lust cycle.

Thinking of you!! Let us know how you progress!