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New Post on the Torah 12 Steps Blog 30 Jan 2011 17:21 #94914

  • Levi
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Hi all fellow shipmates !
I have posted a small article here (torah12steps.blogspot.com/2011/01/hitting-bottom-while-on-top-from.html) giving a Torah source for the concept of "Hitting Bottom while On Top", something we discussed several times on the call.

Hatzlacha !
Levi


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Re: New Post on the Torah 12 Steps Blog 03 Feb 2011 16:47 #95616

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Levi wrote on 30 Jan 2011 17:21:

Hi all fellow shipmates !
I have posted a small article here (http://torah12steps.blogspot.com/2011/01/hitting-bottom-while-on-top-from.html) giving a Torah source for the concept of "Hitting Bottom while On Top", something we discussed several times on the call.



Hey Levi - Thanks for posting this. I love the idea of having a blog to post these on. Can you open up the comment section on your blog? I don't see where I can comment. I don't have much more to say than "Thanks for putting up this new blog" but I thought closing the comments might have been an oversight.


Much Hatzlacha!


YVY - "Kivi" on the call (much shorter than "Yashuv-VYashuv")
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Re: New Post on the Torah 12 Steps Blog 03 Feb 2011 16:54 #95617

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Have you ever felt this - that the Big Book is like the only Mussar Sefer you can read in the Bathroom? I believe I've seen somewhere that an appropriate thing to think about in the bathroom is Niflaos HaBorai, Maasai Hashem - like the grandeur of mountains, beauty of sunsets and the like. It would seem to me that thinking about the Big Book concepts is no less appropriate, even though many of the concepts are rooted in Torah. It's like the guy who saw his friend walking into the bathroom with a Rashb"a. He alerted his friend that he was holding a Rashb"a and his friend replied "What? You think the Rashb"a never used the bathroom?" Of course he's wrong, but he's right that people who embody Torah will find themselves in such Mekomos and of course their thoughts will be infused with Daas Torah, but that doesn't make it Assur for them to think in the bathroom! 
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Re: New Post on the Torah 12 Steps Blog 03 Feb 2011 17:53 #95622

  • Yosef Hatzadik
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I recall hearing that during the times when a person cannot learn Torah:

  • If he is in a clean place, he should contemplate Gadlus Haborei & shiflus atzmo.


  • If he is an unclean place (i.e. bathroom, piles of garbage waiting for the sanitation dept. etc.) he should think only about shiflus atzmo.


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Re: New Post on the Torah 12 Steps Blog 03 Feb 2011 18:40 #95638

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Uh oh - I take back my Heterim. I just found this:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/weekly_torah.php?id=251
Thinking Torah Thoughts In A Bathroom[/size][/color]

One is not allowed to think in learning while he is in a bathroom.(57) Rather one should think about his business dealings etc.(58) On Shabbos since one should not think about business one should think about buildings.(59) If one has learning on his mind all the time then he is considered an o'nes and thinking in learning is permitted.(60) If one is using the bathroom and a thought about a certain lady comes into his mind then he may think in learning.(61) Sometimes the bathroom of a shul is situated in such a way that one hears devarim sh'be'kedusha while in the bathroom. In this situation one is considered an o'nes and thinking in learning is permitted.(62) It would seem that one may think in learning if one passed gas.(63) One is forbidden to think about Hashem in the bathroom.(64) There is a discussion in the poskim whether or not one is permitted to think about learning while he is in the shower (when there is no toilet in the room).(65) Some poskim say it is permitted for one to think in learning in a room that only has a tub.(66)

Footnotes
(57) Refer to Gemorah Shabbos 40b, Rashi "l'harher," Rosh 3:12, Gemorah Shabbos 150a, Rambam Hilchos Krias Shema 3:4, Shulchan Aruch 85:2, Levush 85:2, Elya Rabba 85:2, Pri Megadim Eishel Avraham 2, Machtzis Ha'shekel 85:1, Birchei Yosef 85:3, Ben Ish Chai Vayetzeh 1:16, Shulchan Aruch Harav 1, Aruch Ha'shulchan 2. This applies to the four amos from where any odor has gone away (Mishnah Berurah 7, Kaf Ha'chaim 7). (58) Magen Avraham 85:1, Shulchan Aruch Harav 1, Mishnah Berurah 6, Kaf Ha'chaim 4, Tehilla L'Dovid 5:1, Masef Lechul Hamachanus 3:8. One can think of how low he is and where he came from (Mishnah Berurah ibid). (59) Be'er Heitiv 85:1, Machtzis Ha'shekel 85:1, Shulchan Aruch Harav 1, Tehilla L'Dovid ibid, Masef Lechul Hamachanus ibid. (60) Refer to Yerushalmi Berochos 3:4, Rashi Zevachim 102b l'onsa," Kesef Mishna Hilchos Krias Shema ibid, Bais Yosef 85, Drisha 85:1, Sharei Teshuva 85:1, Pri Megadim M.Z 85:1, Pri Chadash, Mishnah Berurah 8, Kaf Ha'chaim 5, see Shiurei Beracha 85:1, Birchei Yosef 1, Shulchan Hatohar 85:1 who frown upon thinking in learning even in this situation. (61) Magen Avraham 4, Shulchan Aruch Harav 4, Mishnah Berurah 13, Aruch Ha'shulchan 2, Kaf Ha'chaim 16. (62) Tzitz Eliezer 13:1:2, (63) Eishel Avraham Butchatch 79:9. (64) Chuchmas Shlomo 85, Lehoros Nosson 1:1, Tzitz Eliezer 13:1:3. (65) Refer to Divrei Chachumim page 21:10, see Kedushas Hamachanei K'hilchosa pages 242-24 in depth. (66) Yabea Omer O.C. 7:27:4. Refer to Yabea Omer O.C. 5:11.


Copyright 2011[/color][/size][/font] Halachically Speaking


It would seem you might be allowed to bring the big book in the bathroom but not read the part about Hashem, if you can find any...


I need to look up these Seforim " (64) Chuchmas Shlomo 85, Lehoros Nosson 1:1, Tzitz Eliezer 13:1:3. " Don't have them handy here...
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Re: New Post on the Torah 12 Steps Blog 04 Feb 2011 00:52 #95727

Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 03 Feb 2011 17:53:

I recall hearing that during the times when a person cannot learn Torah:

  • If he is in a clean place, he should contemplate Gadlus Haborei & shiflus atzmo.


  • If he is an unclean place (i.e. bathroom, piles of garbage waiting for the sanitation dept. etc.) he should think only about shiflus atzmo.




i asked one of the twerskis if im having trouble controlling my mind in a bathroom can  i THINK thoughts of torah and he said yes.
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Re: New Post on the Torah 12 Steps Blog 17 Feb 2011 18:22 #97417

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The Nesivos Sholom in many places (the Elul shmoozen are one I remember off the top of my head) states that the Magen Avrohom is matir to think about Torah in the bathroom if he otherwise will have impure thoughts.
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Re: New Post on the Torah 12 Steps Blog 18 Dec 2011 10:56 #128699

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I had to get a psak for a bachur (who thankfully just signed-up to the forum), who couldn';t and can't go to the batheroom without being MZ"L.    Ad kdei kach, that he needed to schedual the bathroom for when he had a 2 hour break, so he would have enough time.... oy!

Anyhow I got a psak from a renown posek, albeit shocked, but allowed him to listen to an MP3 mussar shiur untill he begins releiving himself, then he must flush, and after the waste clears he can continue to listen.

You can PM/ email me for this poseks name.
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