I am powerless to lust and the effect that it has on my mind and body. It causes, continues to cause, and if I let it will cause my life to become unmanagable. This is not something that I have just come to realize but is good to remind myself.

I am subsurvient to lust. It is my master and my leader. It controls what I do throughout my day. I have found that kust takes the place of what I lack in my Avodas Hashem towards God, my creator and controller of that which I cannot. I am ashamed of my lust worship, understand its effect on my physical and spiritual bodies, yet I empower lust. Yes, thats right I give lust the power to control me. I give it the oxygen to breathe. If I dont give lust the attention that it wants me to give it, then as we Rashi quotes numerous times in chumash: "ein melech belo am". Lust is only as powerfull as its kingdome, me. I could revolt and fight lust, but that would not solve the problm because that would be giving lust the attention it wants. The better idea is to just subserve myself to something, some being  even more powerfull than lust. Something that could unshackle my binds that lust has on me. God.

Hey Yiddle,

Thanks for sharing with us. I'm having a hard time drawing the line between our natural desires and "lust". What is lust? Is it the natural drive to masturbate? Isn't it normal to have this feeling? Won't we always have this desire? Isn't this what hashem wants?

Avraham.

Here's my attempt to answer your question.  You're right.  There is no difference between our natural desires and lust, they're one and the same.  The difference is how we react to it.  As with all desires, there is a healthy and an unhealthy way to channel it.  The healthy way is to set boundaries and enjoy the pleasures of this world within Torah guidelines - including lust.  The unhealthy way is to allow it to exceed all boundaries and to control us.  To worship it and seek it out.  That's when it becomes harmful.  There is nothing wrong with G-d's creation - and He created this desire.  But there is a right way and a wrong way to approach it, and He gives us the ability to choose.

Yes, lust is a natural desire. Men have a desire to lust towards woman. They are born with it. Some people learn to deflect this desire and not lust towards woman. Some people do lust woman and its not 'unhealthy' for them. I am in a third category. I never taught myself to not lust and it is terrible for me. It is my allergy. My disease. For the noraml guy walking the street, its ok to lust, but not me. Lusting leads to a life of psychological, emotional, spiritual, and physical trauma that I want no part of.

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the answers.

@yiddle2

Is this the goal? Isn't this the Catholic approach? Can't this lead to bigger problems? There is no way we'll be able to do this once we get married.

How is it an allergy/disease? In what way is it causing you all the above? If you are referring to something private in your life please ignore the question. I'm trying to apply this to myself but I don't see how...

@aaron4

Thanks for the reply. It definitely answers my question.

Installed:

I think you are confusing LUSTING and HAVING RELATIONS WITH A WIFE. They are two completely different things. They are quite opposites actually. I dont know how to define each one in a clear way, but they are definitely not the same.

Lusting is a disease/allergy as proven by step 1. We are powerless over lust and has caused our lives to become unmanagable... If you havent gotten this then you might need to rethink your step 1. Dont you feel that if you lust even one second then it just makes you go crazy? Atleast thats how I feel. Its my allergy. Like having a peanut allergy.

Hey Yiddle,

Thanks for the reply.




I was having a hard time differentiating between the two but Aaron explained that difference is that one is mutar and one isn't and I'm willing to accept that but you wrote that "Some people learn to deflect this desire and not lust towards woman." and I'm not sure if this is the proper solution. As I stated earlier, it was tried by the Catholics and it doesn't really work.




Do you deeply believe that? Don't you think that we would have a disease/allergy if we wouldn't be drawn to lust? Isn't it kinda natural?





I'm powerless over lust, I did P&M even though I didn't want to, I'm powerless over it. It goes against everything I believe in. I also think that it can kill me/my marriage later on once I get married so in a way, I'm looking to the future and thinking that it WILL make my life unmanageable and I want to work on it now. HOWEVER, I don't see how it is having a "psychological, emotional, and physical trauma" on me. It is spiritually damaging but don't see how it is physically and emotionally damaging.

Its a little alot more than mutar/assur. Lusting is a selfish act of using another individual for one's own pleasure.

I deeply believe that lusting is an allergy/disease. I have to. It destroys me to do it.

For me, lusting causes alot of psychological anguish. If I lust it causes me to act out which would cause me to act out even more. I dont want to lust anymore yet I cant control it. Its a never ending cycle if i keep lusting.

What is selfish? How is masturbating selfish? How is having sex selfish? Women like it as well perhaps even more than we do (obviously in a different way). Okay I get it, getting pleasure form porn stars is selfish (even though they are getting paid, we wouldn't want anyone to be in that situation). And if we don't control our lust now, we will think of other things while we are intimate with our wives and that is selfish. Thanks.




I still don't get it! "Do you deeply believe that? Don't you think that we would have a disease/allergy if we wouldn't be drawn to lust? Isn't it kinda natural?"




I respect that (It unfortunately doesn't cause great psychological anguish for me but I'm clean for over 35 days so it is obviously a big deal for me). Agree with the second point.

"Do you deeply believe that? Don't you think that we would have a disease/allergy if we wouldn't be drawn to lust? Isn't it kinda natural?"

No, I think I could (as Dov puts it) "lust like a gentleman" if I wasnt addicted. But I am an addict and I am powerless to lust and the effect it has on me. In my shul, many of the men lust woman, but they are not addicted to lust. Its not good for their Neshama, but its not an allergy for them. For me, its deathly. If I give lust the oxygen it needs to breathe, I will go crazy.

How do you think that you are any different than the other guys in shul? Do you think that you have less control over it than they do? We are all men we all have these desires.

Yes. We all the desires, but some of us cannot control them.

Don't know why I'm writing this because at the end of the day who cares but most frum people masturbate (even though they don't want to) and many frum people with full access to the internet check out pornography. We want to stop and that is great but I don't feel like I'm different than anybody else. This obviously doesn't change anything. I'm determined to make this work. I guess it's a pride issue.

Thanks for all the clarifications.

Does anyone else feel that the group has become a little stagnant? I dont feel like I am improving with the core group here....Where's Dov???

im here

how are u