I'm new to this forum, but not new to this struggle.  I signed up to the weekly E-mail lists a few months ago.  I often just glance at them, as I'm trying not to spend so much time reading E-mails.  But, even with this, I have gotten chizuk through the themes that keep repeating themselves.

I grew up secular, but did Teshuva in college--I came to Yeshiva in Israel and never left.  Now I'm married with five children (our oldest is eight and our youngest is a month old).

I was in the habit of staring at girls, I remember even in nursery school.  I just liked the way they looked.  Things got worse when I was 10 or 11.  My sisters had a "facts of life" book with indecent pictures and crooked ideas, and I found it.  It described Mast... as a fun thing to do, and so I followed the instructions.  I've been stuck ever since.

I was a member of a shul youth group around the age of my bar-mitzvah.  The youth group leader gained my trust very early on, and I could discuss anything with him.  Luckily, I learned early on that mast... is wrong.  I've been fighting it ever since, sometimes more successfully and sometimes less so.  I think now I go two or three months clean, and then I tend to trip up a few times close together.  I always feel that the yeitzer hara tricked me, and somehow it's strategy was different than last time.  Also, I view it as tripping up for one "phase," instead of multiple times.  So, I manage not to get too depressed about it, and can pick myself up again pretty quickly.

I would like to be able to stop altogether.  But, I am more concerned with controlling my eyes.  I feel that it is impossible to walk down the street without taking a look at every woman along the way.  I think the trickiest part is that, in my neighborhood, everyone is dressed so tznius that it's hard to feel that I'm really doing anything wrong.

Besides that, I slip up every once in a while with the internet--probably a few times a year.  But then, I feel that I was somehow outsmarted again by my Yeitzer.  I wasn't looking for indecent pictures...  I was just curious about such-and-such an actress... I wasn't expecting to find such indecent pictures...

I see the progress is still very slow on my own, and that's why I decided to become more involved in this forum.

But, I find this is also a challenge.  I think my own situation is rather mild, and I find that by seeing other people's stories which are more involved than my own, I end up getting thoughts instead of getting rid of them.  Any advice on this point would also be helpful.  Thanks.

Welcome to our community,

The Shmiras Ainayim Chizuk e-mail is less explicit and could be just right for you. Make sure to read it each day.

And I highly suggest reading through our two handbooks:

Right click on the links below and select "Save Link/Target As" to download the handbooks to your computer.

1) The GuardYourEyes Handbook
This Handbook details 18 suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. For the first time, we can gauge our level of addiction and find the appropriate tools for our particular situation. And no matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

2) The GuardYourEyes Attitude
The Attitude Handbook details 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth...

if you have gotten that far on your own in israel faced with thos kinds of pressures then you are a member of a group of people that i blive are meant to succeed to help othrs lss fortunate feel cspsble and that our nation isnt just moses and aarons .........

All the stories that you read here are all about pain. Pain that's to great to be described! If the y"h manages to put thoughts in to you through these stories then he's really fooling you badly. On the other hand, if you find that something triggers you, you should of course stay away from it.

Don't forget that most of these "more involved" stories you refer to, they also began as much more mild....just like yours. "Aizeh Hu Chacham...."

LIKE I TELL MY KIDS "NO ONE ONE TOUCHES A SKUNK TO WHY IT STINKS" IT JUST STINKS!!!

b

When the situations get too explicit GYE takes them off the forum. But yes sometimes when a guy talks about his problem and "how low he has sunk" you can get in your head "Geez - I wonder what it would be like to sink like that" -

Stay away from what triggers you - but see the pain and try and help those on this forum that need encouragement!

All the best - -

ninetydays90

Hello Eye.nonymous  and congratulations on adding another cute name to GYE (or is it GUE?).
But 7Up is stillt he winner by far.

You know, I was wondering about the same thing. Maybe Guard should have a duplicate, tamer site.  I 'attended' one of the phone meetings, and was again turned off by description of behavior that seemed beyond my.

But after some soul searching (whew, its not so pretty) and reading the GUI books again, it seems to me that its all the same thing.

Lust.

The mechanism of it coming out is different, but the source is the same.

Sort of like the molten core of the Earth producing geysers, volcanoes, and hot springs. Just depends on how it trickles out.

So, our genetic pathways or social training may be different, but the root is the same, as R' G. figured out.

I do not know of a better place to rid of it than here.  Triggers shmiggers as bardichev would say, there are no shortage of triggers in the world, but where else can you discuss and get chizuk from so many SPECIAL people?

What I've found in myself was that the y'h, quite cleverly, told me in loud and clear terms that this site is not for me, I am not busy with the heavy emotions and stuff described here.

But then I saw one of Bardichev's post (this time capital B, as I am makir tov, very much, to him for putting it so bluntly):

I TOO WAS TOOOOOOO PROUD TO ADMIT I WAS ADDICTED

I AM A VERY UPSTANDING PERSON IN MY FAMILY AND KEHILLA

I WAS JUST A LITTLE "SHVACH" WHEN IT CAME TO THIS LITTLE THINGAMAJIG CALLED UHH UHH YEAH INTERNET

WRONG WRONG WRONG DEAD WRONG

I WAS ADDICTED LIKE CRAZY

So I realized that i too am addicted like crazy (um, perhaps not like crazy. but addicted is enough.) I cannot shake off negative behaviors in this area for any serious length of time. So I ask you, what difference does it make if it is only looking at pretty women (or looking at the women, to see if they are pretty), it is still lust, still assur, and needs to be beat!!!

A few members here have recently praised the 'GUI attitude' book immensely, and I've started reading it again. Bli neder, I am not going to stop. I need to retrain the way I think.

I can relate to what you write that you have been interested in pretty women since kindergarden. My sister still kids me from time to time how I came home from kindergarden saying I like a particular secretary in the school because she has straight hair. But you know what? I found this to be an excuse, not a reason.

The reason is lust.

Yes, there is beauty out there, but if I cannot control myself in 'appreciating' it, then it is vulgar lust, and I REALLY need to learn to stop.

Just my opinion, you know yourself best and are the final umpire....

Very best wishes,

kutan

KUTAN  EYE.N HEILIGER  TZADIKKIM

THERE IS AN OLD HUNGARIAN SAYING

OUR GRANDMOTHERS USED TO SAY

MEN KEN NISHT ZAYN ABISSEL ALLAPUTTUSH!

(you cant be a little bit pregnant)

if you are addicted you are addicted

it is how you deal with the addiction

THE DECEPTION IS THAT THE YH TELLS US WE ARE REALLY NOT ADDICTED

AND WE CAN SNAP OUT OF IT ON A DIME

b

Rebbe B.,
I love you
k

Perfectly put, Bardichev!

TAHNKS BUT IT SOUNDS MUCH BETTER IN HUNGARIAN YIDDISH

b

I guess this is the proper forum for keeping track of one's ninety day progress.

To summarize, I used to think there was some chemical build-up or something that made it almost impossible to stay clean from mast*** for more than a month or two.  I'd feel that the yeitzer was just impossible to defeat (or, to avoid).

But, now I want to do better than that.  So far, I'm working on day 10.

At first I thought it was silly to announce such early progress, since a clean month was pretty regular for me.

But now, I see it was a good idea.  I've had a couple of restless nights due to room temperature, and also due to a mild flu.  This, in the past, was a trigger for problems.  This time, I've managed to stay clean.

Also, my wife is post-birth (our baby is about two months old.  We have 4 other children, too.  Aged 8,6,4,2).  She expected to go to the mikvah yesterday, but in the end she has to start counting again.

Dear Eye,

Mazal tov on the birth!

I know from experience, this is the hardest time ever for a man. However, if you can completely forget feelings of lust and get rid of them (and I think it can be done after a week of hard work), you might not even miss it. This is done by not staring in a lustful way at any women, live or photos, even at your wife! Keep your mind focused on your work, your kids, learning Torah, and talking to HaShem/getting closer to HaShem by seeing Him everywhere.

In my humble opinion, this test for us is the master one, the "mother of all tests", like the Akeida for Avraham Avinu. Both tests are against the person's internal characteristics. Our is lust, and Avraham's was chesed.

Good luck!

I was up with the flu, tired but sick, for a couple of hours.  All sorts of bad thoughts went into my mind--I was getting curious if certain indecent images might be on the internet.

I was going to ask for help in combatting these thoughts.  The next morning I was working at my computer alone in the house.  I realized the danger of this situation, finished what I was doing, and ran out of the house as quickly as I could.

Usually these thoughts persist, even for weeks, until I eventually lose.

Then, I realized the obvious answer... I HAVE TO sign up for an internet filter.  There's nothing innocent about an addiction, no matter how infrequent the falls may be.  I am now in the process of signing up for K9.