wow !

dov wrote on 22 Oct 2010 03:19:


Dov, it's so good to hear you describe that 'hole in the gut' feeling.

And you're plain humanity is just so beautiful. That's being an Avrohom Avinu. (I'll bet you'll erase this to not see you're own praise!)

I want to ask how you filled up your hole, but I imagine we each have to find our own answer through prayer and meditation, or just starting to listen to the messages that Hashem has probably been sending us for years.

Much love and thanks,

AA

It's Sunday and time to renew my neder.

I am scared that I will just break the neder. I know well that feeling that comes just before of not caring about anything.

But, despite that, here goes. Neder for a week, as above.

Okay, done. Till next Sunday.

It's that time of week again. This neder does seem to be helping. I have K9 installed anyway, so even if i were to search i wouldn't find much, and the thought of having to say the Tikkun and post about it here makes me feel that i just can't be bothered. If i had open access, then it would probably be a different story. Still, B"h, so far so good.

So here I go again....

Done.

Lots to make up to my wife. I'm practising looking at her and smiling for one minute at the moment. In almost nine years of marriage it's something I've hardly ever done. It's sounds a weird thing to 'practise' - but for sick people like me... what can i say. I want to break through my discomfort and fear so i can do it all the time. Its part of me learning to give and not be so self absorbed and selfish. B"H she's grateful.

Wishing everyone much hatzlocho

AA

We are all on training wheels here. Training wheels of becoming human.

aa1977 wrote on 31 Oct 2010 21:30:


Super!

Here is another idea...since you are working on looking at her and smiling for a minute, how about trying looking at your own face and into your own eyes in a mirror for ten seconds - and smiling. When was the last time you did that? Hey, we all are shelo lishma - we are first motivated by self-love rather than by love of another or of Hashem....but I wonder where is all that self-love?!
I mean, how does it feel for most of us to spend 10 seconds looking at our own faces and into our own eyes in private in a mirror and trying to actually like that person we see. To feel what it is like to say (and mean), "Hey, you sweet, misguided child of Hashem. You are so sweet and good inside, so special and beautiful - and so confused. Nu. Keep trying. You are really a wonderful b'riyah and I love you, so I will do anything for you."

...what will you not do to save your life? Well. Why have so many of us never been really comfortable looking at our own faces and into our own eyes? After all, we are living with ourselves, aren't we? "Nine years of marriage", you say? I understand...but it wasn't until after about thirty-seven years of life , that I first succeeded looking at me and liking myself.

Nowadays, when I take a peek in the looking glass for a few seconds, I usually smile with an understanding smile and feel a mixture of nachas, pity, regret, and yearning for success, all rolled together. I leave the bathroom with a bigger smile than when I came in. All because of my step-work, thank-G-d.

Like myself?!!!

Are you kidding?

Surely that's not a Jewish idea. We're supposed to beat ourselves up and focus on our lowliness, no? 

And if i like myself, then i wouldn't work on myself any more. I'd be self-satisfied and arrogant! No! I won't do it!

:

And of course, up until now is when I've been self-satisfied, arrogant and haven't worked hard on myself.

Another one of these paradoxes. It's only by accepting and loving ourselves as we are, that we free ourselves up to be truly honest with ourselves, see our faults and then set to work improving.

Thanks for the beautiful post, Dov. It's another thing i need to practise (and one my wife told me  to do months ago. Chochmas Nashim!)

Aa

She probably loves you better than you do. You are a very lucky guy, and so are many of us goofball.

I'm sure she does.

Something very painful to share. It came up a couple of weeks ago and i didn't write it, but i want to now.

It's a horrible thing to see in myself, but it's how it is. I walk around. I try and guard my eyes, I don't very often take second looks and mostly keep my eyes down. But we all know that you get glimpses here and there. A nanosecond is enough for my mind to take a full length shot. And what goes on in my head? I don't try to rehash the image or fantasize, but I hear the words, "Wow, look at her." A one I'm often saying to myself nowadays is, "Nu, ashrei baalah - happy is her husband."

What's so bad? Because every time I do this I'm subconsciously robbing my wife of her self-confidence. It's such a horrible thing to see - here I am walking around, thinking about how beautiful and attractive everyone else's wife is, and how lucky they are.

SPOILED, SELFISH, CRUEL, UNFEELING, SELF-CENTRED, UNGRATEFUL, *********

I'm supposed to be making my wife feel like she's the most perfect woman alive - that's my job. That's being a husband. She isn't going to get it from anyone else. I'm supposed to make her feel that she has no competition. She beats everyone else hands down.

And what am I doing? The exact opposite. Everyone else is beating her hands down. She's feeling it. She doesn't know what it is, but for the first time she's speaking about not being happy with her body and not feeling attractive.

"Great. Maybe now she'll go to the gym and make herself more attractive."

AAAGH! WILL YOU SHUT UP AND STOP BEING SO ***** SELF CENTRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry.

I don't feel i even deserve Hashem's help for this. Feeling horrible is also just wallowing in me again. What i need to do is learn some humility and appreciate what i have. I know this is all part of the illusion still. I think that seeing your own wife's beauty is a zchus - if you're grateful for her, and have humility and shmiras habris - you see her beauty. Otherwise you don't. It's no chochmah to see other womens beauty. Marry them and it will soon dissapear!

I've shared. Thank you for listening.

Insightful post. Sounds like you've been shteiging on "The Garden of Peace".

A good heart, a good head.  Now all you need is God's help and your off to a fantastic life!!

This line, although we all feel it at times is of course a direct result of our sickness


We all deserve Hashems help.  Since no one can make it through the day without His help (realize it or not) and He decided to keep us alive, it is apparently part of The Plan.

I also really loved Reb Dov's post and also am not quite up to being able to look myself straight in the mirror and downright like myself.  YAY! God still has plans for me.  I'm not out of ajob yet.

thanks for sharing, reb aa1977, i identify with a lot of what you wrote. sounds like you are headed in the right direction.

thanks

aa1977 you are not alone, we all say ashrai baalah when we see a pretty woman, especially if she's frum. But, you know what? There's a thread called "Wives who are not interested" and it has 334 posts and 1858 views and it is growing every day. There's a good chance he has the same problem. You don't need to be an addict to want to have relations, and with such a stunning wife it is much worse, so let's all say Oy lebaalah. And if she is not dressed according to the letter and the spirit of the law (I know Bardichev, it's not our job to check) then it's Oy v'avoy v'avoy lebaalah. That's a big achrayos.
And when we see your wife we also say "Wow, look at her. Ashrai baalah." And baalah probably says it all the time also if he is normal.

I just checked. It's now 349 posts and 1909 views!

aa1977 wrote on 03 Nov 2010 22:16:


Sweet!

Two things for you that might just seem like ways to 'rub your nose in it', to the untrained, hasty eye. But when you understand how to use them, will be oznayim l'sobriety (tools) for you (I hope):

First off, a nice Chazal that resonates with what you said above about the fact that appreciation of a spouse is contingent upon faithfulness in the heart:

"kol hanosein eynov b'mah she'eyno shelo - may sheyeish lo, notlin mimenu" - in other words, there is a bracha we get to appreciate and enjoy the attractiveness of our spouses. It is from Hashem. We can't even lust our way to it, for that lust will eventually spill over onto other people.

I believe this is as true for husbands as it is for wives. So in my own case, should I choose to be masbiyah eynee with a lust image (of a real person or of a picture), it is always at the expense of my happiness with whatever I've actually got. Whenever a lust opportunity comes up, I have a choice in that moment: do something in this moment that will increase my appreciation of my wife in some respect (take the actions of love) - or take this lust and use it - and as a result want it and believe in it even more than I already do. Which will it be? The addict knows very well...till the pain gets too great. Then he really, finally, in trouble. But it is the best possible trouble to be in, and that pain opens the door to recovery.

[The actions of love can be calling my wife just to say "hi!" and ask how things are going/daven for her real needs/get back to the shopping I was doing [i]for her in the first place[/i] (duh...), whatever. Being useful to her. She's my wife! Don't I want things to be better for us? Well, this is the only way, hello.]


Thing 2 - So true. "Marry them and it will soon disappear!" But really, why will it disappear? And what really is "it"?

When you say inside, "Wow, look at her.", what are you really saying? What does that mean?

I believe that it means you are religious. You worship women with power - women who are beautiful to you. It is a religion, you know. It doesn't have to have a name (Lustism?), but when I observe that my mouth drops open from what I see, that my eyes follow her, and that I fantasize (use) her image, that I focus and hope (and maybe even pray!) for attachment to it...well.....isn't that worship?!

Don't we speak of desiring more than anything to be doveik - attached to - Hashem and of the ziv of the Sh'chinah? Isn't it supposed to be a lust of some kind? Doesn't RMB"M describe it as "the way a man is preoccupied with desire for his woman all day long"?

There is nothing 'anatomically' wrong with you and me, but we have a problem: we have all the right ingredients and 'parts' - and naturally use them for the wrong thing! For a broken cistern. And no amount of religiosity will break me out of it. There is not 'teshuvah' for me to 'snap out of it'....except for maybe a few minutes or days. I need more than any single act, sh'vuah, takanah, or whatever can provide.

I need to be immersed in recovery, to hang out with recovering people, be a member of a society of recovering people, use their tools, and learn how to live a little bit differently on a daily basis in the context of my real, mundane, daily life.

Cuz my body 'knows' and tells me that the 'babe' over there, is actually a goddess. Really, not just figuratively. To me, she has power. Real power....and I need her. I feel like she will take care of me if I could only get closer. But as you put it so nicely, once we have a real relationship with them, all that disappears....because that takes them off the pedestal and they are no longer goddesses. "Uh oh...gotta find another one who really is a goddess!" And on it goes....

I am screwed up, and how. Until I recognize and admit that, there is just no starting point at all.

Is that any help, at all? 

I need her! Now! She's the one! And there she is again! And her, too! Goodness there's so many of them! So many goddesses and so little time!

Yeah, yeah. I know it's true. Aaron the High Priest of Lustaism. Give me time.

It's sunday so i need to make my neder again. I'll do it soon.

What's come up for me is my depression. It's always been there, but somehow having started to work on this has brought it to the fore.

In working on Step 1 I'm seeing that it's my depression that's made my life unmanageable, not lust. Lust is there - but I think was only secondary. Maybe it's like this for all addicts - though i still can't really call myself that. I was depressed, bored and was looking stam, i rarely got aroused. And msbing was a handfull of times a year, if that (excuse the pun). I've had filters installed for years already, so YouTube was about as bad as it got (most of the time).

But i've hardly ever smiled naturally. Even at my engagement. People wanted me to smile for the camera and i just couldn't - i didn't know how. Was i b'simcha on my wedding day? Sadly - no. I enjoyed it once the dancing started. But i wasn't happy.

I've had a few months of happiness here and there in my life. One after i had some counselling when i was in my twenties and the frum counsellor let me know that it was normal to want sex - even frum people enjoy sex - a big chiddush for me and very liberating - it was okay to be in touch with my feelings. The other time after i did the Shofar workshop - which broke off all my outer layers and got me really in touch with my inner self, and again - feelings.

These were both short lived. Apart from these two times i've lived with a low-level mild-moderate depression. I can function, but not very effectively. I've learned to smile more at my wife and kids, but i'm still not 'happy'. There's some block inside. I'm happy that this has come up and that i'm focusing on it and determined to work on it.

What about lust? It's there - maybe this is the feeling that i'm just too afraid to be in touch with, because it's so overwhelming. I don't know.

But i can't live in this depressed state any more. This isn't living.

Someone sent me a message saying that depression is all about ego - things aren't how i want them to be, so i'm angry, grumpy and depressed. Perhaps depression really is this simple. And perhaps my frustration about all the restrictions and chumras about sex in halacho is the whole problem. It's possible.

Step 1 is by no means finished, yet, so perhaps this will change as I gain more insight. Meanwhile, this is where i am.

Actually posting this has confused me. Perhaps lust, and my desperation for it, does lie at the route of this all.

Signing out,

Confused.