trueme wrote on 04 Jul 2025 20:30:

Re: mindfullness. Lotta great mindfullness tools in flight to freedom. Give some of the recordings a shot actually. I'm a fan.

Re: Torah. I think literally every single person has tried that solution. I think most of us would agree that the first step is to just work the GYE tools and get some clean time in. Fleeing lust to torah doesn't tend to work well. Building a clean life centered around the torah does. Those are two very different beings.

Are you in touch (like, pick up the phone or meet in person level in touch) with anyone?

Im in close contact with Yechida we are good friends.

What does that mean tried Torah?

I feel like I dont have consistent and long enough stretches.

What about בראתי יצר הרע בראתי תורה תבלין? How do you understand that?

Shalom Brother,
I don't know if this is a sanctioned pshat, but this is how it makes sense to me.

Torah is life. The YH is the challenger to that life. When I'm really living and feeling Hashem, there is no room for anything else. It's not just about learning Torah (though that is a tremendous zechus that may indeed help) as a distraction or a neutralizer. It's about choosing life. The true and eternally meaningful life, not the temporary stuff that satisfies only in moments. I don't need an answer to pornography or masturbation, because there is no longer a question. Life is such an ultimate answer that the question is removed entirely. I don't need an antidote if I understand not to ingest the poison in the first place. Ay but this particular poison is delicious and addicting and I'm starving and just a little bit, and and and. If you desire and value life, you don't mess with lethal poisons. You don't play Russian roulette with your beloved. You don't even consider it. To play is ignoring the metzius of what it is - a game that only ends with death.

I don't have to be living a perfect Torah life in order to want it and to choose it. I'm a man. I have limitations. I don't have the strength to live as if every aveira is death.  I don't have the depth to feel like all sins are killing me. But this one, the very fact that it's so hard and so big actually makes it easiest to really believe that it is lethal. I want life, and this is my greatest obstacle. 

When life is lacking, that's when there are absences that the YH exploits. Death is the ultimate absence. It means not living. The way to fully grasp the gravity of death is to equally grasp the gravity of life. This is what saying 'fight like your life depends on it' means. If you have what to live for, what to protect, then death is not an acceptable possibility, and you won't hold back anything in order to win.

Torah (life) is the response to the YH, because it is the absolute good. There is no room for anything else.

trueme wrote on 07 Jul 2025 23:45:

If I may add to BenHashemBH's beautiful, Maharal-style explanation, there is also a very simple, natural understanding of this Gemara:
Toiling in Torah (עמל התורה) gets rid of the YH*. Full stop. BUT, someone who is sick must go to see a doctor. If you have an infection, then you go to a doctor. Learning Torah won't get rid of the infection. Someone who is a sex addict (or if that sounds too scary, then just call it "sick") must go and get some extra help, like tools on GYE, seeing a psychologist, or joining SA groups, depending on the severity of the addiction/sickness. Torah won't be sufficient. Once you're back to relatively normal & healthy levels of YH, then learning Torah will be your protection: אם אבן הוא נימוח ואם ברזל הוא מתפוצץ. 

See this thread, for some more discussion on this topic.


*From the Gemara Kiddushin 30b it is clear that it's mainly referring to עסק התורה, not just living a Torah-dik life.

כָּךְ הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא אָמַר לָהֶם לְיִשְׂרָאֵל בָּנַי בָּרָאתִי יֵצֶר הָרָע וּבָרָאתִי לוֹ תּוֹרָה תַּבְלִין וְאִם אַתֶּם עוֹסְקִים בַּתּוֹרָה אֵין אַתֶּם נִמְסָרִים בְּיָדוֹ שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר הֲלוֹא אִם תֵּיטִיב שְׂאֵת

תָּנָא דְּבֵי רַבִּי יִשְׁמָעֵאל בְּנִי אִם פָּגַע בְּךָ מְנֻוּוֹל זֶה מׇשְׁכֵהוּ לְבֵית הַמִּדְרָשׁ אִם אֶבֶן הוּא נִימּוֹחַ וְאִם בַּרְזֶל הוּא מִתְפּוֹצֵץ שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר הֲלוֹא כֹה דְבָרִי כָּאֵשׁ נְאֻם ה' וּכְפַטִּישׁ יְפֹצֵץ סָלַע אִם אֶבֶן הוּא נִימּוֹחַ שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר הוֹי כׇּל צָמֵא לְכוּ לַמַּיִם וְאוֹמֵר אֲבָנִים שָׁחֲקוּ מַיִם

trueme wrote on 07 Jul 2025 23:45:

Not much to add to the excellent explanations above. 

I'll just add that most of who went through the yeshiva system and struggled seriously with this as bochurim were stuck with this vicious thought: "Torah tavlin. But I'm trying to learn and I'm still not perfect with this struggle. This must mean that either 1) I'm the biggest rasha that ever lived and when the gemara said learning will help it meant for normal people - which I clearly must not be. Ergo, I am garbage. Or 2) my learning is fake, ergo I am garbage."

Maybe we didn't think it so clearly and directly, but that's the basic feeling we were left with (unless I'm projecting too hard here :p ) 

Obviously that thought is incorrect. It's normal for people to struggle, even good bochurim who are trying sincerely to sink into learning. As to why Torah is not a magic bullet, I'll refer you to upanddown's post and also the thread he linked. 

I'll add one more point. Using the dimyon of Torah as a magic solution is an escapist fantasy and part of the problem. Instead of explaining what I mean, I'll just refer to this post  I wrote about tefillah. 

Edit: Please don't take this in any way to mean getting involved in torah is not important, essential, and also helpful. It's just not a magic bullet.

upanddown wrote on 08 Jul 2025 10:04:

Thank you all for your responses. Im digesting. I was silly for saying Im a garbage bag but that was how I felt. I really think Im capable of alot better and I think I mean that as a kick in the pants. I know Hashem loves me (Although I have to work on feeling that - alot) but I am kind of shouting at myself - nu?! You should be finishing ש"ס and writing חידושים! And in stead this?!!

I think both the Steipler in his correspondence to Dr. Greenwald (Where I think he is talking about getting a person out of depression) says along the lines of up and down. Do you recall a חזון איש in אגרות or in אמונה ובטחון that says more along with the lines of a person being distant from the effects of תורה because of אבירות?

In terms of depression. That is a sickness and this is a yetzer hara - isn't that what it is? So an addict, or someone that indulges too much turns this beyond a yetzer hara and into a sickness? Sad. I was not born like that. I turned myself from a very pure innocent boy into something Im disgusted with. And yet that's not the true me. But thats how I feel - stronger urges and issues than before? What is the true me? I think It's like I have layers that are pulling me down and stifling the true me - but the true me remains pure, just covered by a kelippah. Once the kelippah is removed, the true me will shine, as it is already natrually doing, albeit stiffled.

Excuse me for talking to myself. 

What does anyone here think?

P.S. Another thought. I shudder to think how people I was very close to view me now that they are in the עולם האמת. So embarrasing!!! Horrifying! Another thought that Im disturbed by is the "video" Ive been told that plays in שמים about your life. Oy, vus far a true me is going to be seen!! I hope with תשובה the video can be edited, or at least have a good ending. 

Sorry if this sounds immature, only here because of anonymity status and when I'm talking to yechida can I speak freely like this. I think its cathartic. But I'm curious to hear the thoughts of the assembeled. I appreciate the resourcefulness of this intelligent group.

I want to leave off with a challenge - can anyone post if they are a תלמיד חכם (Can answer basic פשט in most of ש"ס and שולחן ערוך and learn when they can with Hasmadah, and still struggle with P and M? The theories sound nice - I want real hard examples - and if we can somehow get a poll with some real numbers that would be great. Anyone?

trueme wrote on 09 Jul 2025 00:13:

Dear Brother,
Not that I know, but I'd wager that those close to you in the Olam HaEmes have far more to celebrate seeing you working on this. Please be fair to yourself. Also, might be worth noting that I suspect you don't feel such embarrassment from say speaking lashon hara? 

The parts you want edited out are likely the essence of your good ending. We don't want to see our aveiros, but the challenges and failures are davka what make the trying and triumphs meaningful. 

BenHashemBH wrote on 09 Jul 2025 14:43:

To be fair, I dont want any part in any aviera. I try to work on Lashon Hara and would be embarrassed if people see the times I slip up. But I think that certain sins are considered by society as "beyond us". Lets say חילול שבת - most frum people dont seem to have a nisayon to keep Shabbos nowadays. Although we don't relate to the earlier american generation that had this test, we do understand the logical background that bred this test (at least somewhat). Although there is an explanation to why our generation has a nisayon with kedusha, I feel like it's different. I dont know if my internet is filtered the way it should be, and even if it is, many times I get around it. Im thinking like - just do what you have to do!! Remove all shaychus to technology, shaygetz!! What's my nisayon? I dont NEED some of the things online for parnassah...I just want a escape outlet in the form of a lust high! When I was a bochur I didn't even use the internet at all! And now? whats the nisayon? Pure stinking tayvah! I will yield that for a period of time I suffered with an issue that drove me to P and M - at least it was a big nisayon. Now I feel like Im sort of wallowing in the after effects of that dark time..not sure if I'm making sense...

BHB, thanks for bringing up Lashon Hara in particular. I work on that and learn sefer Chofetz Chaim, but Ive mostly done so as a segula and didn't really stop to think how Ive grown in this area. Thanks for making me feel good.

I'm quite sure there is no actual way to compare nisyonos of different generations, but the ease and availability of lust content, the emotional challenges so many face, and the almost non existent social price for giving in, really set a completely different stage of מה יעשה הבן ולא יחטא than any generation had in any area. Maybe a partial analogue would be avoda zara in the times when it was a form of lust and could be carried around in one's pocket (and it was indeed rampant in a extreme way).
There is certainly something very deep going on in terms of בירור טוב ורע - getting us familiar with and manifesting the most pure, neshama rooted, drive for kedusha.