That spoiler was true to its word.

I'm curious who those people are. Anyone who can be named? Or just regular know-it-all guys who know nothing at all.

I know little about christian theology, but the way you implied the concept of powerlessness as being doomed to sin, and surrender to God as seeking some sort of salvation was as foreign to me as the quote from Paul in your post. I've read a lot of stuff on recovery and been to hundreds of meetings and not once have I come across that misconception. Powerless means nothing more than my inability to overcome the temptations on my own, something I had come to realize long ago after trying everything I could think of, and surrender is turning to Him and others for help whilst putting my own self-will aside. Does the fact that I believe I'm not a self-sufficient almighty who can manage everything on my own make me doomed, wicked and inherently sinful? If anything, the program teaches the opposite, that we can recover from lust if we take the right actions of connecting to Him and others. I'm really sorry that you feel the way you do about yourself, but if you do ever decide to gain an inside look to the program, you'll be quick to learn that every single one of those horrible adjectives is blatantly and absolutely false.

Instead of seeing things through the eyes of Paul, try this, lehavdil.       

guardyoureyes.com/forum/13-BEIS-HAMEDRASH/393191-The-Tefila-Approach#393191

Seems Paul believes in G-d (somewhat).

But, he doesn't also believe in himself.

Guess his friends didn't love him enough to tell him.


You are worth it.
You are worth everything.

iwillmanage wrote on 17 Apr 2025 09:48:

Well said. Very well said.

I wasn't saying powerlessness is a christian concept. But there are people who (without experiencing or fully understanding SA) have tried to pasul it as such. And after seeing a dose of straight up Christian theology I can see why people are very nervous about the concept. Because, as someone who has felt very hopeless about the aveiros I feel like I cannot control, I can see why that christain theology is something that needs to be actively avoided.

I should have clarified in my original post but you know how it is on chol hamoed. Kids keep on interrupting. I had more to say on Paul too. Oh well.