chosemyshem wrote on 01 Jul 2024 14:20:

Sounds like you know yourself all to well. Youre asking all the right questions

chosemyshem wrote on 01 Jul 2024 14:20:

Well. I like lusting.

I also get very hurt from using lust, and intellectually think it's very dangerous for me to continue using it. I thought I have a very hard time remembering why I don't like it, and that's why I can't go more than a week or two without falling - bc I forget I don't like it. But really I don't dislike it. I just get hurt when I use it, and know that if I don't stop I'll get hurt so much worse.

I also really do have a procrastination problem. But have yet to get seriously hurt from it. And a part of procrastination, for me, is a way to use porn.

It's hard for me to say now that I have a serious problem, when I'm using lust so much less frequently and to a lesser extent than I was two years ago. But I have a very limited amount of control over lust. I'm just pretty good about filters, setting myself up in the right way, and using laziness to stop myself from more extreme manifestations of lust. Not sure if I'm afraid to admit to the magnitude of the problem, or afraid to admit to the smallness of the problem (bc if it's a small enough problem to fix then I'd have to put in the work to fix it.)

I don't know if I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get clean right now. I've said many times that I am, and I've done things that make me very uncomfortable to get clean (with filters, talking to people, etc.). But I don't know if I'm willing to go to therapy, tell my wife, or go to SA meetings (I think therapy and SA may both be because I'd have to tell my wife.) I think I don't have to decide that right now though.

It's easier for me to write things out and think as I write than it is for me to just think about myself. That's why you lucky guys are getting this brain vomit.

chosemyshem wrote on 01 Jul 2024 21:04:

If you would take the time to envision how you would spend your time if it was up to you, would it include setting aside time to lust?

try clarifying what you want out of life and do whatever it takes to get that.  

best wishes
vehkam

chosemyshem wrote on 01 Jul 2024 21:04:

In your daunting post about a projected future of someone who never reigned in their tayvos, you describe some of the devastating things that could transpire. Not just to ourselves, but to those we love most. Perhaps you could weaponize that for motivation. What if my wife finds out, even about a small thing, and that opens up the whole world of pain and shame for both of us - now we have to carry that and all its ramifications for the rest of our lives. What if I can battle this for both of us, every little win is my karban that is secretly bringing us closer. Taking a small bite doesn't seem so bad . . . but refraining from taking even a small bite, that it huge! I don't know if you'll ever find out in this world what I've done and what I fought against for you, but I know. In this world it is in my hands to bring us closer, both here and in the higher worlds. After all the gedarim that we need, I am my own final geder. 

vehkam wrote on 01 Jul 2024 22:09:

I do think if I was picturing my ideal day it would involve using lust. Lust in a controlled way, that wouldn't hurt me, come back to bite me, or ruin my life or my connection to Hashem. "Kosher" lust. But, yeah, piles of lust. 

I do not think I should do whatever it takes to get that . . .

chosemyshem wrote on 02 Jul 2024 13:41:

Your ideal day is what you view as your purpose in life.  If it is not worth doing whatever it takes to get then it is probably not what you really view as ideal. 

I'm gonna think about this. I don't know if would view my purpose in life as my ideal day. 
There's things I value only intellectually (e.g. doing chesed) and things I only value physically or emotionally (e.g. clearly porn). Most things fall somewhere along a spectrum of some amount of intellectual value and physical value. 

What I view as my purpose in life are largely things that are very high up on the intellectual value scale, but not necessarily the highest on the emotional value scale. 

So like in theory my ideal day would be a 12 hour seder + nurturing my family + pulling some babies out of a fire. But those are intellectual desires. I enjoy learning but have no physical drive to a 12 hour seder. 
I have no intellectual drive to porn, and a very low one to lust. But the physical/emotional drive to it is bananas. And honestly the emotions are more in control. So my ideal day would involve a nice chunk of lust (because those wants are driving the car) - but that's not what I try to prioritize in my life in any way (because the intellectual wants are setting the goals). 

I don't know if this made any sense. 

chosemyshem wrote on 02 Jul 2024 14:28:

Clearly your purpose in life is intellectual. However if it is not emotionally fulfilling it will be incredibly difficult to attain.  The ideal day needs to take this into consideration.  Ultimately if you can become emotionally connected to your intellectual knowledge you can have both. 

The fact that lust is pleasurable to you does not mean that it is emotionally fulfilling. Lust generally leaves a person wanting more. On the other hand true physical intimacy between spouses that are dedicated to each other may be the most emotionally satisfying experience available to us  in the physical form. 

I tend to get burned when I think I've discovered a "new program" that will help me get clean. GYE, F2F, shemona perakim, TBOTG, uber-filtering, re-learning intimacy, accountability programs, charts, personal connections, new kabbolos/gedarim/commitments, prayer regimes, teshuva. They help a bit, but then collapse. And then I feel worse than when I started. A whole laundry list of "programs" that I thought would solve the problem, but did not. 

So naturally I'm pessimistic about any "program" that will "solve" my lust "issue". Chalk up another reason why I haven't started SA meetings. 

And so but even so here I go on another program. Hopefully a different program, but I have almost no optimism that this will solve the problem. But either way, here it goes.

The goal of this program is to connect to Hashem. The end goal is to make Hashem so real to me that I'm uncomfortable masturbating in his presence. To make porn, masturbation, and lust a positive part of the derech for me to connect to Hashem. To let Hashem into my life even if that means giving up my precious treasure of lust.

I want this. I'm so jealous of how people here talk about feeling a victory and closeness to Hashem from looking away. I'm so jealous of how Dov talks about the real relationship an addict can develop with his personal Hashem. I'm so sick of feeling like garbage and dead inside after binging.

I've made a lot of improvement in the past six months. But 30 days or 90 days or better filters or less being alone or even meeting chaverim is not going to the root of the problem. I need to change. And I'm not going to start not liking porn. I have yet to see on this site a solution for the root problem besides connecting to Hashem. Call it step 3 and surrender or call it TBOTG and victory, it's a relationship with Hashem that seems to be the only way out. And I'd really like to get out. 

Not sure how to go about this. But I'd like to. Practical suggestions are welcome. I already do a daily read of TBOTG most days (though it really is hard for me to get into it) and working on davening is an uphill battle. 

chosemyshem wrote on 03 Jul 2024 16:05:

This sounds like something I need in my life, and I very much relate to the first part as well (the crushing disappointment when yet another promise fails to deliver).
I'd love to see what you discover.

Please excuse my ignorance, what's TBOTG?
Ah, never mind, I got it.
Thanks anyhow.

I will keep the oilam updated. So far no progress to report.

Free ebook is available here.

If you want to see it applied, check out Iwannalivereal and Vehkam's threads. Kdai to read both even if you don't want to see it applied.

thompson wrote on 03 Jul 2024 16:34:

Let the record show that I said thank you for the reason for the edit ONLY.
Not the post and not the edit.

redfaced wrote on 03 Jul 2024 16:49:

Lol! Was gonna say the same thing!!

Finchley would actually make an awesome username.  

chosemyshem wrote on 03 Jul 2024 16:05:

Hmmm..this got me thinking...
chosemyshem wrote on 26 Jun 2024 20:30:

And also...
chosemyshem wrote on 26 Jun 2024 19:49:

And one more...
chosemyshem wrote on 10 Jun 2024 20:52:


Are you so sure about what you wrote before?

Unless you think that perfection is the opposite of failure, you been successful and growing, I think.
Please contemplate that thought. Consider where you were 3 months ago, 6 months ago, 2 years ago, and where you are now.
Allow yourself to appreciate the progress that you have made, even if it wasn't as smooth as you would have liked. 
Embrace where you are and feel good about it. You are good!

(Disclaimer: I don't men to simply pump you up and make you feel good. I am trying to help you appreciate and enjoy what (I think) you have accomplished. It's a hard fight and you are making progress. That is actually a great thing. You need to learn to appreciate that in a serious way.
This doesn't take away from what there is to accomplish further. If anything it enables you gather the strength needed to solider on.)

chosemyshem wrote on 03 Jul 2024 16:05:

A couple people mentioned to me that this post sounded very pained or negative. 

This is probably not a great sign, but I didn't mean any of it in a negative way. Yes, on some level I have very little hope of getting free of this thing. But that doesn't hurt so much most days.

Just because (on one level I think) I won't be clean forever doesn't mean I can't enjoy being clean today. It doesn't mean I can't appreciate the progress I've made. It doesn't mean things can't change. 

That list of things is an incomplete list of things I've actually tried. Some with more effort, some with less. Some helped more, some helped less. I'm glad I tried each of them, and I'll try more things yet. 

My lusting hurts me. And there's no magic bullet to kill it, no lone cowboy to ride into town and slay the dragon. Life sucks and then you die but what's the point of being sad about that?