youknowwho wrote on 07 May 2024 20:52:

And feel free to ignore this if you're not in the mood of anything other than ranting. I get it.

Phooey on Vayimaen videos!
Phooey on yoga pants!

Reading your words I am vicariously experiencing that sick, deep, horrible feeling inside. Ugh. Arghhh . Blech. It’s not that long ago that I can’t emphathize. 

Just swear that you won’t fall again today because of this feeling. That’s the only thing that can make it worse…

Hang on, 
Chaim 

youknowwho wrote on 07 May 2024 20:52:

Well, way to take the wind right out of my sails. I don't know for sure I made progress. V'ha rayah, today's very intense fall.

But, I am currently defining progress as 1) urges weakening or coming less often due to not indulging them 2) becoming more experienced and habituated in applying tools such as urge surging, distraction, reaching out etc. 3) becoming smarter in setting gedarim / setting myself up for success. 
So being able to make the decision to filter my work computer = progress on #3. Going to a chol hamoed trip and not staring despite the sea of short shorts = progress on #2. Progress on #1 is the sweetest, but probably something that just happens and ebbs and flows at the will of G-d. Not something I can "progress" myself on. But I do feel like I some progress progressed itself there too. Until today, urges were not crazy since before pesach.  

End of answer. Begin unqualified philosophical rant. Not sure if I totally agree with everything I'm about to write, and it's definitely subject to a serious machlokes rishonim.

Free will is not a muscle. Every bechira is precisely balanced between yes or no and hangs on nothing but your ratzon. [As a side point, this is why it rankles me when people say our generation is challenged in ways no other generation was. That may be true, but is totally irrelevant to being bocher b'tov, which is always a 50/50 choice.] So to progress in being bocher b'tov in shmiras einayim (or anything) is an oxymoron. What we can do is move our nekudas habichara by making good decisions that limit the need for bechira when presented with a nisayon in shmiras einayim (or anything). So setting gedarim, inculcating good habits, avoiding tests, davening, psyching ourselves up that we want to not sin and drilling into ourselves that sin is something we dislike, are all way of winning the battle by flying over it. Progress is building wings. 

[I think this rant is philosophically well grounded in the opinions of some rishonim, which I did not ever learn. Practically, no one approaches their life like this, and we view ourselves as being bocher in a much broader way than I just stated.] 

chooseurname wrote on 07 May 2024 21:13:

Woah! My mind got stuck on the yoga pants...I will need to read this later when I have more focus. 

Hang on, you are not alone! 

-YKW

Great philosophical questions!! Something to think about and research.

chooseurname wrote on 07 May 2024 21:13:



Noch Ah Hug.

If you want philosophy, I can chime in. 
I agree and disagree. (Philosophical answer)

Without getting involved in the Machlokes Rishonim, I don’t think that point that you made means what you are trying to say. 

Yes, the Nekudas Habechira will always be 50/50. So what?  The Avoda is to create aggregate success. So when a person, through repeated positive choices and actions moves his Nekudas Habechira to the point, for example, that horribly painful events in his life no longer make him want to drown himself in porn, and if fact he goes and learns instead, he is at that moment experiencing a smashing success at the exact moment that he had no challenge at all. (וזהו פירוש הפסוק והאמין בה׳ ויחשביה לצדקה ואיכמ״ל) . Of course, he will have another challenge in something , if he’s not dead yet, and that will test his mettle with a 50/50 choice. And that Nisayon will be his current point of growth or descent.
But the success that he’s accomplished through past choices is wholly his.
So Bechira may not be a muscle that you build up, but you do build yourself up through acts of Bechira. 

If i misunderstood you please correct me. Ad Kan Philosophy 

As for your definitions of growth and progress, which are terrifically cogent as always - please remember that changes take a long time to register on the inside. Less urges, less intense urges, less sexualization pf everything happens gradually and with time. 

And saying that “Since this particular urge was super-strong therefore every change I thought I had experienced must be false” is just an illogical argument of the Yetzer Hora. 

Analyze how you came to fall and how you need to change to avoid it.
But don’t deny or void your previous growth and change. That’s not called for. 

You’re a good man. 

Chaim

Yoga anyone? this is getting way to philosophical.

@chooseurname - I can relate to this disgusting feeling. I hope you don't get to experience it again.

chaimoigen wrote on 07 May 2024 22:24:

עי' מכתב מאליהו

Excellent points, chooseurname and chaimoigen. I appreciate it.

Just making sure you know, Reb chooseurname, my question was out of genuine interest in what you would have to say and bring out the discussion, not meant to hurt you or take wind out of your sails. 

Sail on, matey!

youknowwho wrote on 07 May 2024 20:55:

why phooey on Vayimaen videos? i think they are doing a great job.hatzlacha!

chaimoigen wrote on 07 May 2024 22:24:

While I don't take generally responsibility for the validity of philosophical arguments made mid-rant, I think what I said shtims 100% with what you said. The elevated levels that come from being bocher btov are totally yours. 

[quote="guardyouriz" post=412794 date=1715175161 catid=4]
youknowwho wrote on 07 May 2024 20:55:

I agree, and recant my rant against them. The target audience is probably not the members of this site though.

chooseurname wrote on 07 May 2024 19:18:

im not  so crazy about stories of others winning it big because they controlled themselves. im sure it has happened but it can be very disappointing when it doesnt happen,i get you.
what i gain from the videos as follows
Rabbi Akiva went to learn Torah but wasnt being successful and felt down . Then he noticed the drips of water making a hole in the rock and said if water can make a hole in a rock ,surely Torah which is compared to fire can make a hole in my heart of flesh.
what was the encouragement that he got? sometimes when we learn we dont see instant results. but its like the rock . you dont see the drips of water making any impression on the rock but if you keep it up drip after drip day after day you WILL see results and the same thing Rabbi Akiva understood with Torah. and the same thing is with the vayimaen videos or any other words of daily chizuk. keep it up AND YOU WILL SEE A CHANGE! dont give up ! CHAZAK CHAZAK! sheva yipol Tzadik vikom!we all are bezras Hashem going to get out of this ! mark my words!Hashem is having such nachas from every step youre taking! remember ,aim to improve, not to perfect.
a rebbi brought a talmid before the Stiepler ZL and said this boy is not having hatzlacha in his learning. maybe he should go out to work. the Stiepler asked the boy, when you started learning wwere you able to read Gemara by yourself ? not really answered the boy. Can you read the gemara now ?yes ,more or less said the boy. The Stiepler ZL turned angrily to the rebbi and said you dont call that hatzlacha?!
i dont know if this helps you, but it surely helped me. hatzlacha!

Checking in.

Yesterday sucked. Today is better. So far. 
There's something very fresh about starting over at day 1. I think Dov has a post about the nuclear reset button? 

Decided before I go online at work for non-work purposes I will 1) learn a mishna before going to GYE. 2) Say the day's tehillim before going to another site. 3) Limited exception if my wife calls me to do something for her. 
Let's see how that goes.

On the topic of progress. I think in the past 2-3 months I've gone consistently cleaner than in a long time. And every fall (with porn) after a decent amount of clean time it consistently surprises me how the mental "chazaras hashuir" pops up in the days after. I thinks that is a real sign of progress. Not the surprise. But that porn stars aren't floating through my mind during shemonah esrei. (Not that shemonah esrei starts floating through my mind instead. But thinking about work/life/GYE/whatever is better than thinking about porn.) But I forget so quickly how intense these memories' (fantasies?) intrusion is. I do like it when I don't have visions of pornography intrusively popping into my head. 

chooseurname wrote on 07 May 2024 19:57:

Yoga pants girl is not in the office today. Instead, a different employee is wearing sweatpants. Progress! Now, if only she'd bought a sweatshirt to go with it INSTEAD OF THE LOWEST CUT TANK TOP I'VE SEEN IN MY LIFE. Jeez. I don't know why we can't hire professional people here. Pathetic. 
I can't tell if these people are unusually trashy or if this is actually what's considered office attire these days. 
(Yeah I shouldn't notice. But I do.)

Edit: One of the mussar giants of pre-war Europe (read: I forgot who this story is about) what walking Friday night with his son when they passed by a group of Jewish boys and girls inappropriately socializing in the street. The son vehemently expressed disgust. Says the mussar giant, "I see you really want to do that too." Or something like that. So, yes, I am aware that my disgust is thinly covering over enjoyment and desire. But that doesn't mean they aren't trashy for dressing that way.