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TOPIC: Connecting the days 21179 Views

Re: Disconnecting the days 18 Aug 2023 15:21 #400066

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I think you should keep on "connecting the days". Just because they weren't "days in a row" why shouldn't they count? You should look back at a year ago and assess if you are in a better place. If you are, that's awesome! That's what it's all about.

I may not be coming into Rosh Hashana with a streak, but I am coming with one of my best years in a long time. 

Re: Disconnecting the days 18 Aug 2023 17:05 #400071

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Lchaim Tovim wrote on 18 Aug 2023 15:21:
I think you should keep on "connecting the days". Just because they weren't "days in a row" why shouldn't they count? You should look back at a year ago and assess if you are in a better place. If you are, that's awesome! That's what it's all about.

I may not be coming into Rosh Hashana with a streak, but I am coming with one of my best years in a long time. 

Hear, Hear!!!
"It is not our abilities that show who we truly are, it is our choices.” ---- Albus Dumbeldore (as per Chris Columbus)

Re: Connecting the days 18 Aug 2023 21:05 #400087

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cordnoy wrote on 15 Aug 2023 17:01:






I don't do so many punishable activities, true. And therefore? Is my only goal here to stay out of hell in the afterlife? What about the hell of not being able to have a healthy relationship with my wife because she doesn't perform like the stars on the screen as I've come to expect? What about the hell of getting mad at my son for calling me from bed because he interrupted my porn search? What about the hell of not being able to have a normal work relationship with a female co-worker because I trained my mind to only see her body? I can go on, but I think you get my point.

True, there's no punishment after death for addiction without acting on it, but I want to live a better life here and now, and as long as I'm in denial, I haven't a chance.

So, am I an addict? No clue. It probably depends on whom I'd ask, but I can't let my inaction fool me.


I hear you.
I don't see this leading me anywhere productive.
I can spend my entire life addicted to lust and suffering its consequences, but from a Jewish perspective, I'm doing great.
Am I doing great, though? Is there a reality where "Jewish perspective" and "life" are separate entities?


Ah, some good ol' philosophizin'.

I have been readin' this back n' forth (as i read everythin') and was tempted to comment several times - thankfully I held back, but this line (bolded above) struck a 'cord,' and it's been a constant theme here, I think. Why is 'Jewish perspective' equated with 'punishment'? And why is 'livin' life' disassociated from 'Jewish perspective'?
  • Punishment - I will steer away from (although i disagree and certainly question some of the assertions mentioned above).
  • Jewish perspective - it is difficult for many of us to ignore this, as it is part of our fabric. If your entire life is spent bein' addicted to lust and fantasies involved with that, from a Jewish perspective, you are not doin' great at all (regardless of actions not committed).
  • Livin' life - the most important factor for me.

Godspeed

I concur with the Cords. To add in my tuppence, Yiddishkeit is about Living with the true meaning of what that means. 

I will hold back from spewing all sorts of nice Torah sources. But my perspective (from what I have learned) is that the afterlife is built by the way we live here. Living in agonizing, unrequited, filthy lusting isn't the LIVING that Hashem put us here to live, and I personally wouldn't want to continue on in some twilight version of that existence forever (וי"א שזהו כף הקלע ואיכמ"ל).

Jewish, human, CHAIM has to be so, so much more. That's what I want. Actually, that's why I chose the username Chaim Oigen - because I want to learn to see what real Chaim - LIVIN' - really is all about...

Sounds to me that you're not in denial. I guess, my friend, the question is: What are you going to do about wanting to start living? 
All I can give is a warm hand and empathy, from one who has felt this way.....

Gutten Chodesh....
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Re: Connecting the days 20 Aug 2023 18:49 #400140

chaimoigen wrote on 18 Aug 2023 21:05:

cordnoy wrote on 15 Aug 2023 17:01:






I don't do so many punishable activities, true. And therefore? Is my only goal here to stay out of hell in the afterlife? What about the hell of not being able to have a healthy relationship with my wife because she doesn't perform like the stars on the screen as I've come to expect? What about the hell of getting mad at my son for calling me from bed because he interrupted my porn search? What about the hell of not being able to have a normal work relationship with a female co-worker because I trained my mind to only see her body? I can go on, but I think you get my point.

True, there's no punishment after death for addiction without acting on it, but I want to live a better life here and now, and as long as I'm in denial, I haven't a chance.

So, am I an addict? No clue. It probably depends on whom I'd ask, but I can't let my inaction fool me.


I hear you.
I don't see this leading me anywhere productive.
I can spend my entire life addicted to lust and suffering its consequences, but from a Jewish perspective, I'm doing great.
Am I doing great, though? Is there a reality where "Jewish perspective" and "life" are separate entities?


Ah, some good ol' philosophizin'.

I have been readin' this back n' forth (as i read everythin') and was tempted to comment several times - thankfully I held back, but this line (bolded above) struck a 'cord,' and it's been a constant theme here, I think. Why is 'Jewish perspective' equated with 'punishment'? And why is 'livin' life' disassociated from 'Jewish perspective'?
  • Punishment - I will steer away from (although i disagree and certainly question some of the assertions mentioned above).
  • Jewish perspective - it is difficult for many of us to ignore this, as it is part of our fabric. If your entire life is spent bein' addicted to lust and fantasies involved with that, from a Jewish perspective, you are not doin' great at all (regardless of actions not committed).
  • Livin' life - the most important factor for me.

Godspeed

I concur with the Cords. To add in my tuppence, Yiddishkeit is about Living with the true meaning of what that means. 

I will hold back from spewing all sorts of nice Torah sources. But my perspective (from what I have learned) is that the afterlife is built by the way we live here. Living in agonizing, unrequited, filthy lusting isn't the LIVING that Hashem put us here to live, and I personally wouldn't want to continue on in some twilight version of that existence forever (וי"א שזהו כף הקלע ואיכמ"ל).

Jewish, human, CHAIM has to be so, so much more. That's what I want. Actually, that's why I chose the username Chaim Oigen - because I want to learn to see what real Chaim - LIVIN' - really is all about...

Sounds to me that you're not in denial. I guess, my friend, the question is: What are you going to do about wanting to start living? 
All I can give is a warm hand and empathy, from one who has felt this way.....

Gutten Chodesh....

Didn't we concur that we were all in concurrence all along?

Regarding your question, I'm working through that very topic as we speak. Perhaps I'll keep you posted. Hey, one never knows...
We get only one chance at life.
This is not a rehearsal; it's the real thing.

Father, help me live sober Today.

Re: Connecting the days 21 Aug 2023 10:51 #400169

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connected wrote on 20 Aug 2023 18:49:

chaimoigen wrote on 18 Aug 2023 21:05:

cordnoy wrote on 15 Aug 2023 17:01:






I don't do so many punishable activities, true. And therefore? Is my only goal here to stay out of hell in the afterlife? What about the hell of not being able to have a healthy relationship with my wife because she doesn't perform like the stars on the screen as I've come to expect? What about the hell of getting mad at my son for calling me from bed because he interrupted my porn search? What about the hell of not being able to have a normal work relationship with a female co-worker because I trained my mind to only see her body? I can go on, but I think you get my point.

True, there's no punishment after death for addiction without acting on it, but I want to live a better life here and now, and as long as I'm in denial, I haven't a chance.

So, am I an addict? No clue. It probably depends on whom I'd ask, but I can't let my inaction fool me.


I hear you.
I don't see this leading me anywhere productive.
I can spend my entire life addicted to lust and suffering its consequences, but from a Jewish perspective, I'm doing great.
Am I doing great, though? Is there a reality where "Jewish perspective" and "life" are separate entities?


Ah, some good ol' philosophizin'.

I have been readin' this back n' forth (as i read everythin') and was tempted to comment several times - thankfully I held back, but this line (bolded above) struck a 'cord,' and it's been a constant theme here, I think. Why is 'Jewish perspective' equated with 'punishment'? And why is 'livin' life' disassociated from 'Jewish perspective'?
  • Punishment - I will steer away from (although i disagree and certainly question some of the assertions mentioned above).
  • Jewish perspective - it is difficult for many of us to ignore this, as it is part of our fabric. If your entire life is spent bein' addicted to lust and fantasies involved with that, from a Jewish perspective, you are not doin' great at all (regardless of actions not committed).
  • Livin' life - the most important factor for me.

Godspeed

I concur with the Cords. To add in my tuppence, Yiddishkeit is about Living with the true meaning of what that means. 

I will hold back from spewing all sorts of nice Torah sources. But my perspective (from what I have learned) is that the afterlife is built by the way we live here. Living in agonizing, unrequited, filthy lusting isn't the LIVING that Hashem put us here to live, and I personally wouldn't want to continue on in some twilight version of that existence forever (וי"א שזהו כף הקלע ואיכמ"ל).

Jewish, human, CHAIM has to be so, so much more. That's what I want. Actually, that's why I chose the username Chaim Oigen - because I want to learn to see what real Chaim - LIVIN' - really is all about...

Sounds to me that you're not in denial. I guess, my friend, the question is: What are you going to do about wanting to start living? 
All I can give is a warm hand and empathy, from one who has felt this way.....

Gutten Chodesh....

Didn't we concur that we were all in concurrence all along?

Regarding your question, I'm working through that very topic as we speak. Perhaps I'll keep you posted. Hey, one never knows...

Hey, Connected. I re-read my last comment and i realize that I come across as lecturing, judgemental, and self-righteous.
I’m sorry.  Please forgive me. 

hang in there- I have no idea idea what you’re going through….
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Re: Connecting the days 21 Aug 2023 17:23 #400184

Update:

I had a sober weekend.
Of course, I can dismiss it by saying that for the past three days, I didn't have the work stresses.
True.
On the other hand, it's not like I never act out Friday, Shabbos, Motzei Shabbos, and Sunday, yet this week I didn't.
Did I fight any urges? No.
Then again, it isn't always the classic urge that drives me. Sometimes, I seek it out to get a rush.

So?
Nothing.

Vanity of vanities all is vanity.

KOT.
We get only one chance at life.
This is not a rehearsal; it's the real thing.

Father, help me live sober Today.

Re: Connecting the days 21 Aug 2023 18:16 #400186

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connected wrote on 21 Aug 2023 17:23:
Update:

I had a sober weekend.
Of course, I can dismiss it by saying that for the past three days, I didn't have the work stresses.
True.
On the other hand, it's not like I never act out Friday, Shabbos, Motzei Shabbos, and Sunday, yet this week I didn't.
Did I fight any urges? No.
Then again, it isn't always the classic urge that drives me. Sometimes, I seek it out to get a rush.

So?
Nothing.

Vanity of vanities all is vanity.

KOT.

Nice! go get yourself a full-blown, large-scale, real-life, too-good-to-be-true tuna sandwich v'hamaven yavin.

I like the honesty. The urge doesn't always drive me either, I'm usually driving the urge.
Last Edit: 21 Aug 2023 18:18 by lchaim tovim.

Re: Connecting the days 22 Aug 2023 16:44 #400236

Lchaim Tovim wrote on 21 Aug 2023 18:16:
Nice! go get yourself a full-blown, large-scale, real-life, too-good-to-be-true tuna sandwich v'hamaven yavin.



Haha! I guess I'll consider myself a maven in this instance.


I like the honesty. The urge doesn't always drive me either, I'm usually driving the urge.

I love this line.
Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you.
Sometimes the urge drives me, and sometimes I drive the urge.

“Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.” Nietzsche
We get only one chance at life.
This is not a rehearsal; it's the real thing.

Father, help me live sober Today.

Re: Connecting the days 23 Aug 2023 21:13 #400317

Pre-accountability:

I haven't felt this in a couple of days, but I want to watch porn and masturbate (aka act out, aka watch p**n and m********e).
Why?
No particular stress I'm trying to escape.
No alluring body parts I'm trying to "run to."
I think it's just some good old-fashioned craving for excitement.

So, let's say I go ahead and do it.
It will definitely be exciting.
The searching.
The thinking I've found the perfect one.
The realizing there's something better.
Yadda yadda yadda.

And then?
Well, nothing. Life goes on.

But there's a potential of it being even more exciting.
Let's say after I finally find the perfect video, my phone slips out of my hand and slides out of the bathroom stall, and I hear a gasp from out there as I'm fumbling with my pants, trying to save my situation.

Should I climb out the window? Oh, no window here.
Should I flush myself and come out at the other end? Don't be ridiculous.
Should I just walk out casually, pick up my phone, and act surprised while muttering something about these blasted pop-ups?
Should I just wait here till midnight?

Now, that excitement will last for way longer.
We get only one chance at life.
This is not a rehearsal; it's the real thing.

Father, help me live sober Today.

Re: Connecting the days 23 Aug 2023 21:23 #400319

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Pre-accountability, here goes:



You must follow these instructions, NOW.



75 Pushups, or until you drop.



Kidding with you of course! I have never tried exercises when I feel like the way you are describing, so I couldn't tell you..



I just love the way you put it down, I can totally relate!



Advice: None, 



Please update us soon that you made it through!

 

Re: Connecting the days 24 Aug 2023 21:19 #400408

I'm trying to update my counter to 0, but it seems that GYE doesn't believe me. Oh well.

Do you think the Malachim still remember how excited they were yesterday when I didn't act out?
I sure hope so. They can definitely use a pick-me-up after I depressed them with today's jump.

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
We get only one chance at life.
This is not a rehearsal; it's the real thing.

Father, help me live sober Today.

Re: Connecting the days 24 Aug 2023 21:32 #400410

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 Post-Accountability.

It's actually a calculated cyber attack, perpetrated by some of your friends here...you will no longer be able to reset the counter. 

Re: Connecting the days 25 Aug 2023 12:56 #400433

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You quoted Nietzsche. Here's a quote from Lovecraft:
"The process of delving into the black abyss is to me the keenest form of fascination."  

It hurts, though, like a itchy scab that bleeds when you pick at it. I've personally been working on not delving into the abyss, because it bites. I have been there plenty, though not recently, BH.

I hope, friend, that you have a Shabbos full of Menucha.
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com
Last Edit: 25 Aug 2023 12:59 by chaimoigen.

Re: Connecting the days 25 Aug 2023 14:01 #400436

chaimoigen wrote on 25 Aug 2023 12:56:
You quoted Nietzsche. Here's a quote from Lovecraft:
"The process of delving into the black abyss is to me the keenest form of fascination."  

It hurts, though, like a itchy scab that bleeds when you pick at it. I've personally been working on not delving into the abyss, because it bites. I have been there plenty, though not recently, BH.

I hope, friend, that you have a Shabbos full of Menucha.

You've been bitten by the abyss? Dude, you're in the wrong place. Get yourself a new abyss.

Here's Jordan Peterson in conversation with Lex Friedman on this subject:

Lex: And if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
JP: I would say, bring it on. If you gaze into the abyss long enough, you see the light, not the darkness.
Lex: Are you sure about that?
JP: I'm betting my life on it.
Lex: That's a heck of a bet. Because it might distort your mind to where all you see is abyss; is the evil in this world.
JP: Yeah, then I would say you haven't looked long enough. It's gazing into the abyss that makes you better.
Sometimes your gaze is forcefully directed to the abyss, and then you're traumatized. If it's involuntary and accidental, it can kill you.
The more it's voluntary, the more transformative it is.
We get only one chance at life.
This is not a rehearsal; it's the real thing.

Father, help me live sober Today.

Re: Connecting the days 25 Aug 2023 14:13 #400438

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connected wrote on 25 Aug 2023 14:01:

chaimoigen wrote on 25 Aug 2023 12:56:
You quoted Nietzsche. Here's a quote from Lovecraft:
"The process of delving into the black abyss is to me the keenest form of fascination."  

It hurts, though, like a itchy scab that bleeds when you pick at it. I've personally been working on not delving into the abyss, because it bites. I have been there plenty, though not recently, BH.

I hope, friend, that you have a Shabbos full of Menucha.

You've been bitten by the abyss? Dude, you're in the wrong place. Get yourself a new abyss.

Here's Jordan Peterson in conversation with Lex Friedman on this subject:

Lex: And if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
JP: I would say, bring it on. If you gaze into the abyss long enough, you see the light, not the darkness.
Lex: Are you sure about that?
JP: I'm betting my life on it.
Lex: That's a heck of a bet. Because it might distort your mind to where all you see is abyss; is the evil in this world.
JP: Yeah, then I would say you haven't looked long enough. It's gazing into the abyss that makes you better.
Sometimes your gaze is forcefully directed to the abyss, and then you're traumatized. If it's involuntary and accidental, it can kill you.
The more it's voluntary, the more transformative it is.

The sources I prefer say differently:
Mi Ha'Ish HaChofetz Chaim - Ohev Yamim Li'Rois Tov

Sincerely,
Chaim Oigen
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com
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