I enjoyed this HHM. You managed to straddle both sides of the debate and then conclude by saying that anyway, it's all subjective and we should all do as we wish!

Hashem Help Me wrote on 09 Mar 2022 23:09:

and anyone who has questions on the idea can question it; this is an open forum and the authors invited discussion; let's not brainwash the brainwashed. and although there is no need to say this - of course, they are being given the chance!

It is always admirable to question and to discuss. That is what forums are meant to encourage. Keep whichever debates tickle the mind ongoing, while having some fun too.....

Yes, this is a long megillah. But that's what it takes to explain more about the program and address some of the concerns people brought up or are thinking about. And some people have never tried any self-talk, so they really need this understanding before they try.

The comments coming up are geared for people who 1) believe in Hashem, 2) believe in the Torah being true and given from Hashem, and 3) believe in the Torah Shebaal Peh. For those who don't, much of my list will not have much value, and you will have to mostly create lines that work for you based on what motivates you (ie. the reasons you came to GYE in the first place).

Types of self-talk lines: an Introduction to this discussion.
1)Some of the lines here are “matter-of-fact” statements, meaning that they are stating facts that we know intuitively to be true or that are stated openly in the Torah or Torah Shebaal Peh. Such statements are true, whether we have an easy or difficult time feeling their truth at the moment. I don't think there should be any issue with saying these statements and making it more real in my life.
(I will give an example here, but it's just an illustration and I ask that it doesn’t turn into a public discussion. The Gemara says that Hashem determines how much money a person will make every year on Rosh Hashana. According to most commentators, this is only if the person does appropriate hishtadlus, but if he does, he will get whatever he was decreed to get. Now, if I have a thriving business and am making a lot of money with new genius ideas every day (may Hashem shower us all with blessing), it might be easy for me to “forget” this idea or not to feel it. If I do self-talk about this idea that all my money was pre-determined by Hashem, so that I begin to feel the truth of the Gemara's statement and don't start thinking otherwise, that's not lying to myself. I truly believe that all the Gemara's words are true, including this one. So if I start feeling otherwise, there's no problem with saying the Gemara's statement until I feel it. And this was actually much of the core of Rav Yisroel Salanter's mussar movement, which did this but focused more on statements about mussar and Hashem's judgment and did it in a mournful voice, etc.)
So any matter-of-fact statements that are supported by Chazal are fine with me. I am comfortable enough to say them until I “feel” them emotionally, because I believe them already logically just from the fact that they are written in the Torah or Torah Shebaal Peh.
2)On the other hand, statements about me or my feelings or how I will experience things require that I actually feel this way at least at some times. I need to deep down believe that they are true. “Deep down” means when I have clarity. Emotions bounce around, and surely when temptation hits we feel very differently. But when we are “calm” from desire, we feel differently. Or if we are usually somewhat affected by our years of giving in or by the years of brainwashing (Yes, the years of tv and social media and society, that even started when we were too young to have an opinion, is a much more extreme form of brainwashing and a much more sick form of brainwashing than self-talk), then it would have to follow when we have a clear moment, like maybe after a fall. That's the time to think about these “I feel” statements and see whether we agree or not. If we don't agree even then, that means those statements don't speak to us, and we should skip those lines.
3)The third group of statements are statements of “the way I act.” These statements are training ourselves how to react to temptation. These are similar to the previous category. If when I am clear I realize that this is the way I want to act, there's no reason not to train myself to think that I act this way, which then makes me more likely to actually act that way. (For example, professional basketball players use self-talk to say things like “I use the right form on my shot even if I am rushed or have an intimidating defender on me” to train themselves to do this in a game, even if their track record has not yet matched this.)
4)The fourth group of statements are identity statements, statements that describe how I identify myself. You decide the way you wish you would identify yourself, and you “give yourself a head start” on that identity from now. This is effective because identifying yourself that way causes you to act that way. People tend to act consistent to how they view themselves. This is supported by many different branches of psychology. (I'm glad they agree on something..)
This one could be difficult for some people, especially if their identity as the opposite is strong. If this makes you very uncomfortable, you should skip this for now (and it could possibly be a sign that you need to work with a therapist on your self-image and on breaking free). If you're only a little uncomfortable, try it anyway and see what happens.

With this introduction, we are ready to analyze the lines and see which are right for you and which aren't:


This is an identity statement. See introductory point 4 in the introduction part of this post.


This is a “the way I act” statement. See introductory point 3.


This is a “matter-of-fact” statement. See introductory point 1. Sources: Avos d'rebbi Nosson perek 3 “1 time when difficult is greater than 100 times when easy.” And there are at least 20 other sources to this idea in Chazal.


This is an identity statement. See introductory point 4 in the introduction to this post. “whatever I did in the past is not relevant” means that my identity is based on the way I want to act now and not on what I did in the past. Not that my past actions did not make a difference.


This is a “the way I act” statement. See introductory point 3.


This is an open statement of the way I want to act and the way I plan to act. It's similar to a “the way I act” statement but is even more clear.


 “Matter-of-fact” statement. See introductory point 1.


This is a statement of how I feel. See introductory point 2. The disclaimers mentioned there apply to this statement.


This is a “the way I act statement.” See introductory point 3. The disclaimers do apply. If you don't feel committed to keep the Torah in general, I doubt this line will work for you.  (Meaning commitment to keep the Torah in other areas, such as being honest, keeping shabbos, not insulting others. Possibly even on anonymous forums? Or is that too much? Lol.)


“anything” here does not mean that there's no pleasure that was missed out on. It means overall you don't feel you miss out, when factoring for pain and regret and the loss of becoming a person you actually think highly about. 
This is a statement of how I feel. See introductory point 2. This has the most disclaimers. When calm, do you feel this line to be true? If not, this line is probably not for you, at least not yet.


This is also a statement of how I feel. See introductory point 2. This has the most disclaimers. Again, when calm, do you feel this line to be true? If not, this line is probably not for you, at least not yet.


This is a “the way I act statement.” See introductory point 3. The disclaimers do apply. If you feel that you just want to avoid porn but want to continue lusting, this sentence won't be for you. (Please keep in mind though that acting that way makes it much harder to succeed.)


This is a matter-of-fact statement. It comes from Hashem Help Me's posts. This topic has been discussed many times on these forums. Please see those discussions for more on this.
(As an aside, if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that HHM Shlita is all 36 hidden tzaddikim wrapped into one!)


This is a “the way I act statement.” See introductory point 3.


This is a “the way I act statement.” See introductory point 3. 
Regarding the idea that it will lower your desire by not talking lustfully or listening to such talk or songs, this is discussed many times by Chazal. (You can check out Chapter 42 in The Battle of the Generation.) And try it. It's far from a cure-all, but it's helpful, like with avoiding any form of lusting.


This is a “the way I act statement.” See introductory point 3. This happens to be the best way to react to random thought of temptation that come up.


This is an “identity statement.” See introductory point 4.


This is a “matter-of-fact statement. See introductory point 1. This is clear in the Gemara Kiddushin 30b and Sukkah 52b.



I am opening this all up for further discussion. I make the following requests: 1) Please quote the part of this post that you are commenting on in the beginning of your post. 2) Please try to make clear comments that people can understand (as opposed to only sarcasm and jokes without a clear point also indicated first). And please try to make your point clear in your first 2-3 sentences. If you want to write a lengthy or sarcastic or attacking post, please make your point clear within the first 2-3 sentences, and then write whatever you want. 3) Please try to keep an open mind and see if maybe this would make sense for you. I request that you don't make comments just to ridicule and mock the idea or to make fun of me. Please act your age. And maybe this will work for someone else, so even if it won't work for you, why would you want to disrupt someone else's recovery? Quite honestly, that's a sick thing to do.
This will make the discussion easier to follow. Thank you.

Just recorded my self-talk. Looking forward to starting on Sunday! 

Doing 10 times each line will work best, but if it's too much for you, try 5 times each instead.

Hey guys,
Today is the first day of our challenge.
​Welcome to all those who are joining us.

Day #1 of this life-changing program! welcome all. The few minutes each day of self-talk will be the beginning to fighting an easy battle, and we will have clarity! And it’s only a few minutes each day, I’m truly looking forward to all of us growing together. (I recorded mine and I’m already feeling so excited! With the consistency of each day I know I’m gonna feel so different on day 10,20,50,90 This stuff works!) Guys, join along there’s nothing to lose there’s no such thing as doing it right or wrong It’s simple. It’s a few minutes a day and the consistency will change your life!

Its such a great idea how about recording many for people to download mp3 it would be awesome 
the goyim believe in these things for meditation 
it works 

 This is a great idea. I would like to find someone who can record it professionally. If anyone has any ideas, please PM me.

It works a little different than meditation, but there are some similarities. I've been busy, but maybe I will get time to post a little more about how this works. There is a great book about it, where I got the idea about the recording from. It's called What to Say When You Talk to Yourself, by Dr. Shad Helmstetter, PhD.

​A basic idea mentioned in the book that I think is very relevant to us is that a person has lots of programming within him. The book is discussing that a person might have had thousands of thoughts about how bad he is. That's why a lot of self-help only helps in a limited way, and especially when the person stops reading the self-help book most of the benefits leave. This is because he has thousands of times of "programming" about how no good he is, and then a few thoughts otherwise are weak compared to all that programming. So when he stops reading, the old programming overpowers all the new things he read.

I think on the topic of taivah this is much stronger. All of us have experienced thousands of messages about how taivah is the greatest thing ever. Every movie, commercial, social media message, thought we had when someone walked by, and a lot more, created very strong programming. (Some people were talking about "brainwashing" before. Quite honestly, we've been brainwashed in the wrong way for a long time. Maybe it's time to "brainwash" ourselves back to normal.)

The way this technique works is to take things that you deep down know (or at least knew) logically to be true, and then you hear it many times and it re-programs you with new programming that is stronger and lasts. Give it 30-45 days and you will already start seeing results.

As we all know, the more clarity the easier the fight is. What self-talk does is it makes you live the clarity each day! With consistency! This method has shown a tremendous amount of success. Unfortunately, many feel it’s hard to do it because it needs consistency.. of course it’s much easier to just make a one time commitment that I’m not falling anymore and dream that there will be clarity along the way, and that there will be superpowers in my body to withhold temptation but that hasn’t shown much long term success. Has it? Guys, Try this method! It’s working incredible for so many! And the best part is, the consistency of doing self-talk has nothing to do with the amount you fall. Regardless if you fall or not during this self-talk program the self-talk doesn’t get affected. The 90 days has nothing to do with how many falls you have.

Just read through this. Has anyone tried it?  Did it help for anyone?

What are the odd, I literally came across that video Yesterday, thanks for posting, must be Hash-m wants me to see it again. 

Captain wrote on 11 Mar 2022 15:27:

Just read through this thread. Thinking of trying this wonderful idea R' Captain.

Just wanted to say that this post with it's breakdown is worthy of being a shiur klali - awesome breakdown!!

Thx wrote:

Thx wrote: