As we get ready for the start of the challenge, it's time to get ready for recording. You can do a trial run today and see how it goes. Please post any concerns, issues, or thoughts here.
To clarify: I posted my own list, and Shtarkandemotional posted his. Feel free to use mine or his or a combination of both. Do whatever speaks to you.
Also, if anyone has any ideas for new lines that could be added, please post them here so others can benefit from them.
If you are uncomfortable with any of the lines, please bring it up here so they can be discussed.
If you are joining, please let us know.
Also, if you don't feel comfortable posting, you can PM me or Shtarkandemotional to let us know that you are joining or if you are having any trouble. Or if you're brave, click thank you to let us know that you are joining.
To share this challenge with others, copy the link from below in my signature. 
Thank you all

Captain wrote on 08 Mar 2022 14:31:

kudos to you; i love new ideas, proposals and suggestions. I told my wife that (that i like new stuff) the other day, and she didn't share my enthusiasm. what's uncomfortable to me is that this sounds to me like another type of brainwashing. convince yourself of something thru repetitive affirmations. now, perhaps we need to counter all the negative brainwashing that is out there, but will this actually last. the hope is that it will lead to positive actions and then we have successfully managed to turn the tide in the opposite direction. why stop at ten times? karuna poole actually recommends that these affirmations should be said at least 1000 times a day for 21 days! good luck doing homework with your kids. truthfully, if we manage to say all 38 statements 1000 times a day, good luck with masturbating; who will have any time? just in case you lose track, i-phone has an app called counter+ that will keep count for you.

i'm not bashing; i'm merely expressing my uncomfortable level

eating coconut crusted fish with lime wedges on the nauru beach - the fattest nation in the world

@trouble, there’s around 60 affirmations in total. How about picking the ones that you feel is true and accurate in regards to your personal journey this way it won’t be convincing yourself stuff rather it’ll be reminding yourself the reality which you often can forget. Secondly, a lot of those statements is retraining your brain to get to the right mindset (for ex. Telling yourself that you don’t need masturbation rather you need to feel good etc will have an effect on your outlook and will reduce the lustful drive and the distortions) And if 10 times is too much, try once.. it has an amazing effect when it’s done consistently and confidently. Try it! Let’s see how it goes! There’s some members on the forum here that have been trying it and have been seeing results!

This is a guess post from Dov: (it is not to anybody, for anybody, about anybody and may not be relevant at all to this topic)

Is there a secret new group that has agreed on using, of repeating mantras until they become true?

To me, it just sounds like getting better and better at lying.

Someone told me a long time ago regarding dog training that it's not quite true what people say that practice makes perfect. If we are practicing in the wrong way or practicing the wrong thing, we will just get better at doing the wrong thing or doing things the wrong way. We get better at what we practice doing. Lying to ourselves is just lying.

Telling the truth to ourselves, on the other hand is practicing honesty and acceptance of the truth.

So if somebody really does have a lingerie fetish, or homosexual desire rather than heterosexual, or really does feel that the most important adventure for them to ever have is a sexual one, then Hashem knows and agrees with it... because it's truth. And Hashem knows the truth. Because the truth is true.

Practicing saying that the truth is not true is just practicing lying.

If on the other hand a person has a twisted view of themselves and thinks that they are worthless human beings because they have a lingerie fetish, homosexual rather than heterosexual desire, or a sex addiction...then they are lying to themselves already. So repeating to themselves that they are worthy even though they have these defects, is saying the truth. And I would highly encourage that.

Is this making sense? There's no real escape from the truth about ourselves. We don't change very much by lying to ourselves until we are convinced of a lie that is better than the sad truth is. Better accept the sad truth so that we can then be in reality and deal with what is true. With what Hashem knows is true about us. I'm sure He will be much more inclined to work with us as partners in _that_ endeavor.

But lying? As we know from Chazal, Hashem does not partner with liars.

@trouble You have a great sense of humor, and I always appreciate some snark. Whenever I see a post of yours, I get ready to laugh. Can you please articulate your exact issues clearly (i meant with this thread, not in general of course. I only wrote this because I know you also appreciate snark) and perhaps people will discuss and debate your points.

@cordnoy: You state that you are not sure if your post is relevant. But if you were pressed for your opinion, would you say that it is relevant or not? And if yes, in which way?

I want to give credit to Captain and Shtark for thinking up new ideas and tools.  Even if one does not necessarily agree with these methods, there's no reason to have to throw a "bucket of water" and dampen their enthusiasm.  Even if it doesnt do the job of totally eradicating the issues or struggles, but if it helps and minimizes the challenges, then isn't that a success to some degree?  

Captain wrote on 09 Mar 2022 03:00:

It's difficult to say: Dov is not the easiest to read, and although he's opinionated, his tone evolves as the discussion moves on. That's why i was careful to write that it might not be relevant. In general, will he like/approve/sanction the method? I doubt it, but as one of you fellows wrote above - if you take somethin' that you hold of and know to be true, but it is challengin', and that you somehow chazer over to strengthen your belief in it - perhaps that's good and ok and productive. I try bringin' him back on the forum from time to time; he gets passionate and then it takes away from his real avodah. When we schmooze, I usually get frustrated with stuff, so I shy away at times, but I always come back to him; he's a true friend, a real mentch and he's filled with good torah and stuff to say, and he has helped truck loads of folks!

cordnoy wrote on 09 Mar 2022 04:30:

Thank you Cordnoy. 

It sounds to me like Dov did not actually read this thread and was commenting based on what someone told him about it. And I understand why he made those comments.

But my question is: Do any of the lines written in this thread fit into the first category Dov mentioned, the one he doesn't like? Is the any line here such as "masturbation gives me no pleasure and is just physically painful"? Something obviously not true?

Of course, everyone is holding somewhere else. These are lines that worked for me and lines that worked for Shtarkandemotional. And for some people, perhaps they will have trouble relating to one or two or even a few of them. So I invited them to discuss them on the thread and see if we could make progress together, and if not, they could just skip that line. I don't see where any lying is happening on this thread.

Again, if there are any lines that make anyone uncomfortable and you don't feel they state truth for you, please bring them up here for discussion, or if not then feel free to skip them. There are enough lines without them. The point is to strengthen what we deep down know is true but have trouble keeping in our conscious mind naturally and especially when we are challenged. We are not aiming to lie to ourselves.

Honesty is very important! And what we really feel truly and honestly inside is what should be addressed. There is room for each person to use his honesty on where he’s holding and use the self talk affirmations accordingly. Therefore, If one is holding in his journey where he feels that giving in to temptation will make him feel really good and it’ll solve his uncomfortable feelings and nothing else will be affected! Then they can focus on this affirmation for now..
9.    I know it may feel really good to masturbate, but I am doing this as a sacrifice for Hashem.

there’s always affirmations that can be helpful for us despite our matzav!  
However, I would recommend to this person to try to do some strong self search on why he thinks that giving in to temptation is the salvation for life perhaps he needs to retrain his mind and reach a new level of understanding about what he truly wants.

Captain wrote on 09 Mar 2022 05:28:

funny you picked one of the most obviously false statements there is on the list.

How deep down does something have to be before you believe it's just something someone told you but isn't what you actually believe? 

bego wrote on 09 Mar 2022 16:28:

Great question! Deep down means what you truly feel in a lust-free moment. It can also mean what you feel after a fall.

Dave M wrote on 09 Mar 2022 03:01:

they asked for a discussion; i was simply giving them an opportunity to develop and articulate their method.

I think we all agree that there is no "one size fits all solution". Example - some of my closest friends here are major Taphsic guys, and are successfully staying clean with it, yet it simply does not speak to me. There are chevra that i have encouraged to go to SA, and others that do not belong there.  There are guys with fetishes that learn to stay clean with acceptance; others come clean with analyzing the fetish's origins and erasing it to a large extent. Some chevra report killing triggers in the street from immodest women by davening for them (reminding oneself that they are people, not objects), while others kill the urge by internally yelling "Uch!!!" 



If this mehalech of self-talk has shown promise with two of our chaverim here, let's give it a chance and see what happens. It does not appear that there is anything intrinsically wrong with it - as far as emes - one's real self wants the right thing - similar to the explanation of "kofin oso ad she'yomar, rotzeh ani".... Of course, anyone who is uncomfortable with the idea should not utilize this strategy. 

That’s how I understand Karov hashem lchol karov, lchal Asher yikrauhu b’emes.

If you call out to Hashem and say you know deep down the truth is that I want to be close to you. Even though there are so many things pulling me in every direction and I don’t know how to fight off these urges. Then hashem will stay close you and give you the strength so that eventually you will be able to fight them off.