Day 8 clean.

I know this is obvious, but once there is a need to let someone know beforehand - there are much less reasons to need to use the computer. Today, I didn't use it at all...

@Lost In Search: totally agree. I realized during the past summer that I need to speak to someone, and I decided to speak to him since he's a good friend and he was already married (that was my line of thinking, rightly or wrongly). He actually turned out to have struggled as well, although for way shorter period of time, and was on GYE a few years ago. I can be totally open with him, boruch hashem.

bochur23 wrote on 02 Feb 2022 06:16:

Amazing to see! Keep the posts coming!

I have a question but since I only read a few of the posts on your previous thread I may be asking something you already answered so I’m sorry in advance if I am. Can you get accountability software on those other devices you have access to? I know you said that the other people that live with you are reluctant to get filters but with accountability software there’s no filters to be added just screenshots taken of your unrestricted web activity. In terms of price, that shouldn’t be a problem because there’s a way to get webchaver for free through venishmartem.com (a partner of webchaver), see here or in my signatur: https://venishmartem.com/kba and you’ll see the directions of how to sign up for it through webchaver. It’s similar to the taphsic method but it’s part of the commitment of signing up to get webchaver (which uses the covenant eyes software) for free. You can also add other people to who the reports are sent to, and you’ll see what I mean when you go visit the site. 

Now if your device is a Microsoft device you can actually get their free filter system, Microsoft Family Safety, which also has accountability features although just one loophole (This loophole doesn’t work if you have webchaver and that’s why I got webchaver to begin with) and you can set it to NO blocking except for explicit sites. It just means that safesearch can’t be turned off unless you get the designated administrator’s permission. Now if you’ve ever used Microsoft edge or bing as the search engine on other browsers, you probably know that you can browse freely with safe search on, it’s just that the searches won’t allow you to see explicit results and you can’t visit registered explicit sites which for Microsoft is only p websites. Safe search for google is also the same as the safe search on Microsoft so if you’ve ever browsed with that it’s the same, and not restrictive at all. Anyway I recommend trying to convince them to get both of these programs because they really won’t interfere with your daily activities on the internet at all. And if you want reach out to the people here or me to find ways to convince them if they’re not convinced for one reason or the other. Odds are they browse with safe search enabled without knowing so you might just be able to show them that. (See last paragraph on how you can implement these features without affecting their accounts or browsing at all) 

And if they ever agree, Microsoft family safety allows to block specific websites, and they allow an option where you can only visit allowed websites. They also block ALL other browsers except for Microsoft edge (which you’ll have to use for the features to work) if the parent/administrator wants. Also, ALL of the searches made on the Microsoft edge (regardless of different accounts being signed into the browser) and regardless if they’re explicit or not, are recorded on the Microsoft family safety application for your parent to see (which has a website and app for iOS and android). Your parent or guardian can also see your web activity in general, which means the websites you visited aside from the stuff you searched for 
through the search bar. This includes being able to see the specific links that you visited on the website, so on YouTube for example, even though all videos are categorized under that website, the specific links of the videos you watched or the channels you visited (which generate their own unique links) are compiled for your parent to see for themselves. So from the Microsoft family application they can click those links to see what was being watched on YouTube through the compiled history of your web activity. Now this accountability feature can’t be changed (it’s set by default and is a default feature of Microsoft safety so you can’t disable this) regardless of whether or not you want to block specific websites or only browse on allowed websites or even if you don’t want safe search to be enabled (which is an option they allow). Go check it out and if your interested in it, reach out to me to fix 2 loopholes that I know how to fix with the family safety features themselves, so it’s not complicated at all.

Also, you said you want to spend less time on the computer so you should know that Microsoft family also allows the parent to set time limits on the device itself and also for specific accounts. So if the other people that use the device have other accounts and you have your own, the parent can put time limits specifically to your account so you’d be signed out when the allotted  time expires but if other people with other accounts want to use it they can do so without and time limits applied on them. And this applies to filters for that matter also, my mom has an account on the computer I use and the Microsoft family safety features only apply to my account and she’s able to browse freely with her Microsoft edge browser and she can also use other browsers also,  granted that she’s signed in with her account and not mine on the computer, so the same should hold true for any other separate accounts on the device so long as you don’t add their accounts to the family group and only add your account. So even if those other people prefer to use other browsers and would prefer not to use Microsoft edge or don’t want to browse with safe search on, your designated parent can only add your account to the family group, so when your signed in you can still see the other browsers but you won’t be able to use them because of the limits and all other limits that they have the ability to impose on you through the features would only be applied when your account is signed in and won’t have a single effect on those other users’s accounts.  The other accounts, who don’t even have to be added to the family group, can do as they please and browse completely free without any of the features applying to them. So if this is how your computer is set up I recommend going this route and if your computers not set up this way, I think you should set it up this way because this interferes even less with their internet browsing than what I described above. You still should get webchaver though in connection with it because of one unfixable loophole at the moment. But be’ezrat Hashem it’ll get fixed soon. 

Sorry for excessively long post and for repeating myself a lot, I use both of these on my computer right now and things are going great especially since they’re both free. They help me out a lot and I hope they do the same for you. By the way I edited this a lot after I posted, so if you read it already please read the last paragraph again.

Day 9 clean.

@Bilaam Harasha to Yosef Hatzaddik: thanks for the info. Like I wrote already, it's not my computer and other people use it. The truth is that what you wrote wouldn't be a problem, but I don't have the courage to bring it up again.

Basically, I moved in here two and a half years ago. Then chanukah time my parents found out that I was watching porn (I had already been caught about 8-9 years ago, but then for all they knew I was clean until then). At that point we had a filter installed on my computer, and I even had a few sessions with a therapist who deals with this subject. One of the things he said was that this computer needs to be filtered ASAP. I asked my parents to take care of it, but they felt it couldn't be done (not blaming them, it must have been a super uncomfortable situation for them). Officially, they don't know that I've continued to struggle for the past two years, and I don't feel brave enough yet to bring it up again. That's the story.

(By the way, although spending less time on the computer is a good thing, that's not my goal. On my filtered devices I don't have time limits. I was just commenting that when you have to contact someone before using it, you realize how much you don't need to use it).

Got it. I don't know if you're in Israel or not, but is there maybe some way you can show those people who use that computer that what your trying to do is pious behavior or just a halachic obligation? Many rabbis (and I think really all orthodox rabbis) rule that you have to use filters on the internet even if you think you'll never end up watching p or anything explicit as a halachic obligation. Maybe you can get a general ruling like that from your rabbi and if your dad is your rabbi maybe from another rabbi you're familiar with? Or maybe show them videos of rabbis saying Orthodox jews in general can't use the internet without some form of filters or online statements from rabbis stating the same thing? This way it wouldn't be as uncomfortable and you wouldn't really have to reveal any of your problems. If you can't do this then I do have another solution for you and that's to only install Microsoft Edge, the browser for microsoft. I don't think they would have a problem with that, just tell them that's your preference over whatever other browser is already on your computer like google chrome. You can then use microsoft family safety features (with someone like your dad who already knows) to just get the safe search to be turned on by default which you can't change and all this is done online, there's nothing more to download than the edge browser itself. People browse with safesearch without even knowing because it's really not restrictive and it's turned on by default in most browsers like google chrome so it wouldn't raise any eyebrows unless people were trying to intentionally turn it off because they would see that they can't if you're using those features. But I assume that from what you write that on your computer, there aren't different accounts that people use for their own separate activity on the device, and what I mean by this is that after turning on the computer but before entering the password to the device, people have the choice to choose an account to log into to use the device, and I assume that for you that there's only one account to choose? If this is the case then getting microsoft edge wouldn't really help unless you can make it the only browser which may conflict with others' preferences, but if you are able to get this done then you're good to use the microsoft family safety features  with safe search and that would help you a lot. If this isn't the case and there are a few accounts to choose from with one in specific that you use, then you can use the family safety features from microsoft to the fullest degree as I outline in my previous post.

When I told my mother about my problems it was pretty uncomfortable but prior to me revealing my problems to her, I made it seem to her that the filters are a religious obligation for me (which it is) and that's how I got her to set up a family group with Microsoft Family Safety at first. It wasn't until I realized that without telling her about my problems, I can simply just ask her to take off the filters and she'll do so without any thought. So that put me in a situation where I had to reveal my problems to her but she didn't suspect anything initially until I finally told her everything and then she understood the real reason why I wanted the filters. So maybe you can do something like what I did with my mom prior to actually telling her my struggles.

Webchaver also has many rabbinic endorsements and even if you don't tell them your struggles the software itself will keep you in check because you can have the reports sent to them (those other people who you're uncomfortable telling, or really anyone else that would breed a sense of shame). And if you don't want to do that then if you get webchaver for free with the link in my post above or in my signature through venishmartem, if you do search up anything explicit, the A.I. will detect any explicit screenshots and then a real person will then review it just to be sure and then you'll get charged whatever amount you agreed to be charged if you fell. Or you can get the microsoft family safety features (but preferably both) to use its accountability features by default (that I wrote about in detail above go see them again, they're really good) and with safe search. And once you pass this threshold you can then ask for more of the features to be implemented from microsoft which will then give you a really good filter you work with. So maybe you can show them this is pious or a religious obligation that rabbanim have a justified concern over and that it won't be restrictive to them at all, in order to get this done initially and after getting the permission to get everything, you can ask whoever you set as your parent on the family safety features to then really use all the features of it to your benefit without those other people even knowing. So this would only be a way to convince them to agree to have webchaver installed and also Microsoft Edge as in the browser only. there's nothing for you to download more than that browser because Microsoft family works online and through the microsoft edge browser. I'm just throwing out ideas to help you, sorry if I'm appearing to be a little pushy. Sorry for also repeating myself a lot in the post, I edited in a couple of times to try to write with more detail.

Day 10 clean, boruch hashem. I've used the computer a few times over the past two days, and every time I texted my friend before and after.

Day 11 and 12 clean.

keep it up! I am are rooting for you,
you give me chizuk!

So... I made it to 12 days clean, and Sunday morning I messed up. I was out of town until Monday night, and I wanted to discuss it first with my accountability friend. That's why I didn't update until now.

[Side point: I'm not sure how the system works on here. I updated the 90 day chart about the fall, and tonight it's already giving me 3 days clean. I guess it's counting Sunday?]

If I want to, I can blame it on an exceptional situation (it was) and just continue the same as before, which was working pretty well so far. But there has to be something that I can learn from this what to work on.

I was reading through various posts today, and I saw something from "Shtarkandemotional" that I think applies to me pretty well.


My friend also made this point to me, and he's right (except that I'm also using the companionship and accountability of the forum as a tool).

The big question is how to get to that clarity. I've gone through the first lesson of the flight to freedom course and filled out all the assignments. What else should I do? And, how does that help me when my mind turns off when I have an urge (or more accurately, my mind is screaming at me not to do it and I actively ignore it because "but I want to"...)?To finish on a good note, I'm at 12+3 (according to GYE) since starting this thread.

The "peak performance" lesson in F2F (Lesson 7) has lots of tools for helping with this. In the near future, the course structure will become more flexible and will allow you more control over which topics you want to focus on.

Before you get to that, you'll learn about commitment tools in Lesson 4 that help you stick with your goals even on days that you're not in the mood. Primarily that would include something like the Taphsic method, but you can try it first without making an actual shevua.

The fact that you are open with your accountability partner will iyh help that next time you will call him during a nisayon, before slipping iyh.... Learning to get out of a nisayon is very powerful. It rewires our thinking - making us realize that this is possible...

bochur23 wrote on 09 Feb 2022 05:54:

Try doing the next two lessons

wow 11 days!!

That's great, and a feat that you should be proud of.

You mentioned that you have a partner, and thats good, I think having an accountability partner  to call before falling is a good idea, and to make it a  habit every time before you fall you do a phone call,  even if you end up falling, it takes the fight out of its hiding place where it does so well and puts it into the sunlight which changes the whole picture and makes it a lot easier to think clearly and stay in control.

Day (12+)4 clean, boruch hashem.

@MenachemGYE, @omekhadavar: I'm up to lesson 6, I guess I'll get to lesson 7 soon. Although, I haven't really been doing them, more just reading through. I just got that website unblocked on my phone, so hopefully I'll get more involved (until now I was copying the text into a word file to read later...)

@Hashem Help Me, @Lost In Search: the "kuntz" is to call him when I'm having an urge, but usually by the time I realize what's going on I've already acted on it... At least in my experience it's not really a conscious urge that builds up. I'm not sure how to explain it. I guess the best I can do is that right when I think of it I should call/text him right away, even if at that point I don't think yet that I'll act on it.

If there is a specific time of day when it usually occurs - example as part of the going to sleep ritual, try calling an hour before that every day to receive the encouragement and seichel you need....