That’s an interesting method, maybe I’ll give it a try thanks.

So I’ve been clean for over two weeks now b”h. 
but I’m beginning to feel moments of desire at random moments, I’ve been told this is going to happen and it’s called withdrawal. I’m aware but that doesn’t make it any easier.

Knowing that it is temporary should help you get through it b'ezras Hashem.

Hey to the chevra here. Haven’t posted in a while and Baruch HaShem I’m posting coming from a good place and not a fall. 
I was just in a thinking mood and I was just wondering if anyone who has been successful in mastering this fight can enlighten me...
for the longest time now I’ve really desired to be close to Hashem and I’ve heard so much about how our connection is enhanced if we are careful in our shmiras hakedusha. The sefer zos brisi talks about this a lot. Is this true? Has anyone here experienced this? I’ve had several very good periods in my life but I wouldn’t say my relationship with Hashem was enhanced, I’ve felt good about myself but I expected more than that on a spiritual level. Just a thought.

Aaron613 wrote on 12 Feb 2021 05:10:

First of all, im so happy for you that you’re doing well, Baruch HaShem!

It’s important to note that ones emotions do not signify reality. Meaning, whether I feel a certain way doesn’t mean that’s the true state that I’m in.
If one forces themselves to learn a mishna and don’t enjoy it etc, they are experiencing a high level of Dveikus through the Limud Hatorah even though they don’t feel good.
And that’s a higher level of Dveikus than someone feeling a Euphora from a niggun (I think that’s poshut even acc to the chassidim, at least acc to Tanya).

Euphora isn’t Dveikus, at least not the sole barometer of ones Dveikus.
Now, it’s true that emotion and feeling do play a vital role in ones Avodas HaShem. And I’ve yet to figure this all out completely...

I’ll give an example, though I’m not married, I presume this is true.
A couple get engaged and married, they have a Euphora etc with intense love and emotion. And over the years that fades and life becomes “just” life, with less excitement etc. 
Does that mean they’re love is any less for each other? No, Chas v’Shalom! Rather, they have become so apart of each other that it doesn’t have the exciting feeling of being new, it’s late here so I don’t have more time to explain.
But what I’m saying is that Yes, I do feel different sometimes, Baruch HaShem. I feel whole and elevated. But usually I just feel the same, like a good stable aspiring Eved HaShem.
And Theres something very profound in that.

Sorry for the ramble, I hope I got my point across.

YeshivaGuy

YeshivaGuy wrote on 12 Feb 2021 05:29:

I have a hard time with that line, Brother YeshivaGuy. I do agree with you that emotions are not the barometer of what the Torah's perspective is on a situation. The learning of a Mishnah is holy and an act of dveykus even if we don't feel that way. The Torah writes,

ולא יהיה בך ערות דבר ושב מאחריך.

Hashem's closeness is connected to the degree of no ervas dovor. That is regardless of our emotions.

On the other hand, it's important to note that emotions are a person's reality. Brother Aaron613 has "a desire to be close to Hashem." I can assure you all that Aaron613 is very close to Hashem. He is trying to live a life of kedushah. He comes to GYE, gets chizzuk and gives others chizzuk. What he is asking, I believe, is about the emotions.

To Aaron613, we constantly have to work on our connection with Hashem. In my experience, longer periods of refraining do remove the negative feelings about my perceived lack of connection with Hashem, but they don't make me feel a more positive close connection with Hashem. That is always a challenge that requires great attention and inspiration. I will say that not waking up the next day and feeling as though I have betrayed Hashem is a great motivation.

שבע יפול צדיק וקם wrote on 14 Feb 2021 23:55:


My point was that emotions are nice and important, but that doesn’t determine ones “closeness” to Hashem.
I didn’t mean to, chas v’Shalom disregard and undermine his genuine thirst for feeling connected to HaShem, but I think it’s important and helpful to bear in mind that “feeling” doesn’t determine closeness.

Secular society teaches that feeling good=good and feeling bad/uncomfortable=bad. 
And with that mindset, it’s hard to be moser nefesh for Avodas HaShem when it’s painful and hard.

Our Avodah is to live based upon “Objective truth” and not become blinded by the בלבול of טוב ורע.

Obviously though, it’s important for a person to be happy etc, but I believe it’s misleading to promise a person that if he’s Moser Nefesh in these inyanim then he’ll live his whole life on “cloud 9.”

I don’t mean to come across harsh, it’s just a mindset that has helped me immensely and I hope it has served a toeles in some form.

Our dear friend may share with us his feelings, if he feels sad,bad,unhappy etc, or if he’s doing great, it’s just that he’s not experiencing a “spiritual Euphora” that he was promised...
As well, it would be helpful to know if our chaver feels “unworthy” of Hashems love, and yearns for a “feeling” to counter the voice inside telling him that he’s “unworthy.”
Theres much to discuss, and I anticipate growing further together.

With admiration and love,

 YeshivaGuy

Thank you both for your replies. Both gave me something to think about. 
I’ve been thinking that perhaps I have to work on my understanding of what a relationship with hashem means. It’s confusing when I think about it a lot. I just assumed that being clean in this area would being clarity in my closeness with hashem but it could be that ones relationship with hashem requires effort and mental excursion aside from staying pure. 

Aaron613 wrote on 18 Feb 2021 05:18:

In order to help you feel it, you can try to look into the concept of chovaso b'olamo as explained by the Ramchal in Da'as Tevunos. It's a difficult sefer to learn, I am quite sure Rabbi Akiva Tatz has shiurim on it though. You can find them here akivatatz.com/ .

The general concept is that we are made up of two parts, the neshama and the guf. These two parts represent many different things, the Y"H and Y"T, good and evil, giving and taking and so forth. When we do good, we increase good in the world and thereby bring the world closer to Hashem. The way Hashem set up the world is that we are driven to follow the will of our guf, that is who we identify as our "self" and therefore whose needs we feel are the most important. This can also be called base desire or the Y"H. Fulfilling the needs of our neshama or doing good, requires us to break our will, to go against our nature. The concept here is that any time our neshama overcomes our guf we are essentially enabling good to rule over evil and this brings us and our creator closer together.

Thinking about how overcoming our desire is really our neshama overcoming our guf and how when when good overpowers evil it brings HKB"H and us closer together and ultimately bring out the true purpose of this world can help us feel closer to Hashem. We are not doing this just because that's what G-D said, we are actually doing something to fulfil His purpose in creating the world. We are revealing His glory by increasing good in the world.

This is a broad subject and this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. I hope this helps you gain a little more clarity and understanding.


All the best
Wilnevergiveup

In our days for whatever reason, it's much harder to develop a relationship with Hashem (whether we are clean or not). But (this is my experience) being clean doesn't itself grant us a relationship with Hashem. It's more like that when we work on developing this relationship with Hashem, it's easier to get further when we are clean. Of course either way our progress is limited and it's not easy to get so much of it, but every bit is valuable, and we get more of it and feel more connected when we are clean.

But it doesn't come from nowhere. If we don't try to develop a relationship with Hashem, we won't have any, whether we are clean or not. We have to try to develop a relationship with Him and not be discovered by the fact that we can only attain so little of it. And then, if we are clean we will get more of it and feel closer.

The Ramchal has some great practical ideas on the first page of Chapter 21 in Mesillas Yeshorim. They take an investment on time but they are the most practical ideas I've seen. (Another idea is to read the Living Emunah books by Rabbi David Ashear.)

Just my own two cents.