So a general question because I'm not very familiar with this forum. I find a lot of focus on dealing with ourselves as addicts and all that, but I find less here about figuring out what we are escaping from and what the addiction "gives us". I understand AA's and SA's approach to addiction and all that, and why that leads to viewing ourselves as addicts that need to be controlled, but I believe that not focusing on these questions really makes things very difficult. I'm new here, but maybe if this area isn't addressed enough I can try to help out a little bit there.

withgdthereshope wrote on 18 Dec 2020 04:50:

Yes!!! Please do!!
Shkoyach

withgdthereshope wrote on 18 Dec 2020 04:50:

I’ve been waiting for this day!

I can’t speak for everyone else, but I believe it would be extremely helpful for many of us if we would share 4 things.

1. Some background, eg childhood...
2. What are we running away from... 
3. Who are we running away / hiding from due to shame. 
4. TRIGGER WARNING! So then let’s skip this one. Ok so don’t write it on the forum. Maybe don’t write it anywhere. However if we could put down our specific lust habits and fixation, that may possibly actually indicate our core issue and once we figure that out it can guide us where to find the light. This #4 is just a theory but may hold water (Yes I have a personal list of my lust habits from youth till recently that I noted for myself. It’s locked in my Hall of Shame).

Markz wrote on 18 Dec 2020 05:03:

And to Yeshiva Guy but I don't know how to tag both.

Has this really not been addressed? I would love to get an idea of what has been addressed and how members feel about the whole idea before really jumping in.

It's a big task and I'm getting a bit scared of the undertaking but maybe we can start slow. I have a hard time not doing things fully - another thing I hope to grow in.

withgdthereshope wrote on 18 Dec 2020 05:07:

And then we have to address your list, but I would love to get some more info first.

Here's some disclaimers.

For starters, I'm not a big believer in the idea of addict for life. Maybe it's all because I don't want to face that idea and I'm simply running away from it all, but I don't think that's the whole reason.

The idea of being an addict for life doesn't fit a lot of what we know about psychology. I think that the reason we are addicts for life is not because we HAVE to be but instead because the addiction is helping escape from something and because that urge is great it's very difficult to ever escape from addiction.

This isn't simply a theoretical discussion though because it gets to the root of the whole thing.

If we wouldn't need to escape than we wouldn't necessarily be that life long addict.

And even if we wouldn't completely ever make peace with what we're escaping from, we would be in a completely different and better world if we at least lessen that need to escape.

Okay, enough for now. Got to catch some shut eye, but PLEASE everyone chime in and let me know your thoughts because I'm new here and don't even know if all this is beneficial.

I think many people can get away with making the distinction that it's only responsible that I use many safeguards, and I must and will do that and be very strict about them, but at the same time I don't have to attach a label to myself. (Perhaps not people with extreme addiction. I don't know.) 

Markz wrote on 18 Dec 2020 05:03:

Thanks Mark for this list. It really represents the core issues. I have such a list written in my heart. 
Do you think it is better to share this list with someone? Including #4?

Sometimes, I feel like the answer to #3 is you. I am ashamed. How can I face you that I fell again and again, over and over? You were a true lifeline in my earlier years.

But, the real answer to #3 is always Hashem and my self. I'm hiding from my self. I'm not allowing the real me to shine through.
I'm trying to hide from Hashem, because if would've truly believed that He is always with me, I wouldn't have fallen.

Personally, I don't subscribe to the Freudian philosophy that our fixations represent core values, however I still think question #4 is good, because it helps us define what we need to work on avoiding.

withgdthereshope wrote on 18 Dec 2020 05:07:

It has, at least I feel it has. But chazara is always good. And he’s offering to give his haaros etc, and there’s always more to learn

withgdthereshope wrote on 18 Dec 2020 04:50:

Hi WGTH, I'm wondering if the following Dov quote has any bearing on your question.
Gibbor quoted Dov as follows (the added emphasis below is Gibbor's):


What do you think?
eved41

eved41 wrote on 18 Dec 2020 14:51:

I think we often get stuck on questions that really don't matter but on the other hand, there is a ton that can make a difference. I agree that speaking with someone and not overburdening ourselves with questions we dont have answers too is super important, BUT there are some mindset shifts that can truly change the ballgame. These are things that really do make a difference. I think I have to do a series on this because I think it can truly transform the lives of so many of us. 

We often ruminate on these things and generally it isn't helpful as Dov wrote, but imagine we actually had clarity and then were able to overcome that uncomfortably that causes us to escape into our addiction. What would that do for us? How helpful would it be?

withgdthereshope wrote on 20 Dec 2020 03:33:

Awesome! Can’t wait! U can post here or start a brand new thread.
Looking Forward!

Instead of being philosophical about to open up to someone or not, maybe just try speaking to someone and see if it helps, being that most guys here say it does. It saved me...

Zedj wrote on 17 Dec 2020 03:47:

A gut voch W.G.T.H!

interesting answers!
I think I made you think! 

I don't think anyone is looking for a magic pill. If there was, then we all would take it in a blink of an eye.
I for one would not be here.

We are battling and fighting with an inner struggle constantly.
As you know there are many ways to relieve and help with this specific struggle.

From my personal experience: I realized a couple of years ago that I have a problem, I knew it in my gut. Addiction I don't know but still an issue.
(Realizing I have an issue)

I don't know at what point I can say I eccepted myself (I may have said something earlier about this)
Was it before I called and reached out? Maybe it was once I actually called?
(eccepting myself..) took me too long to reach out for help.

It could very well be, the eccepting of yourself will probably be commuted when you make the phone call or speak to someone. (Of course when you are ready to make that step.)

As a therapist, you see people talk about their issues and vulnerabilities, it's not easy to do, it's extremely raw and painful sometimes ( for me it's so hard) but it's the only way I see myself getting out of this pit I created for myself.

I was, am and still vulnerable.
I think that being vulnerable is necessary and needed to be helped.

I'm not a great writer or communicator but I think you understand.

Wishing you the best and hatzlocha!

Ps
I think having a series will help alot on the forums.
Looking forward!