Just read through your thread from the beginning. I really like your attitude. You're not happy about where you life is taking you, and you want to change. Kol HaKavod!

But are you ready to change?
Prove it to us!

The past two days are actually a bit unusual for me. In the past when I've fallen, i would stay down for a day or two afterwards i.e. continue to watch porn and mas*******. But ב״ה, because you guys were pushing me to continue fighting, i got right back up; Right back into my can-do attitude and began to try again! My שמחה almost immediately came back ב״ה. You guys have have no idea how I'm feeling right now! It's really geshmak!! And I'll tell you why...

Usually after a fall like i mentioned, i usually continue to fall for a bit longer, because my יצר is super strong afterwards. So yesterday, my יצר הרע was on his game; every thought that popped into my head was from him. But ב״ה, i had no mechanism to attain porn so i my only option was to say no. (Wouldn't it be great if this was always the case?!)

But today, as usual, he was still on his game. I found myself in the library of my ישיבה. Now before i tell you what happened, let me tell you about my personal learning. I have only two chavrusas during the day so whenever I'm not learning with them i like to learn in the library because I love the quiet. I hate when there are two people arguing in your right ear and then another guy laining the גמ׳ as loud as he can in my left. It's impossible to think. So i head to the library where it's quiet and i could think. I definitely learn well there when I'm alone.

So i head down there today, and i put down my seforim and go to the bathroom first. Now in the bathroom, the יצר הרע attacks. Now he was telling me to just take a peak at the porn while i will be in the library today but i was just telling him no and pushing him away.

I then leave the bathroom and he attacks again, now this time, i theoretically have access to the porn because like i said, there's a loophole in my filter system, so i start pacing back and forth (Which is what i like to do when i think) and had a conversation with the יצר in my head with the יצר הרע that was actually quite amusing when i caught myself having this conversation because its such a silly and childish conversation: "DO IT, Its not so bad" "Nope," "But you like when you do it," "Nope," "Oh c'mon, just one more time, it won't hurt!" "No!!"... And this goes on and on incessantly. He always makes a stupid claim that is definitely a lie, but is always so enticing. And no matter how much i say "no", he keeps on egging me on. He really can't take no for an answer. It's nuts! So this goes on for about 15 minutes.

Now it's השגחה פרטית that when i got out of the bathroom (before i had this conversation with the יצר) i get back to the place where i put down my seforim and there are people sitting there. So i take my seforim and put them somewhere else in the library so i could have this talk. BUT if no one would have been sitting there then i probably would be in the middle of falling right now. That area in the library is in a quiet corner where no one else goes...It's exactly where the יצר wants to fight me. So הקב״ה was sending a message to me and was helping me out.

I then start to pace and then have the conversation... So after the 15 minutes, even though i knew that Hashem was helping me and that i shouldn't give in to the יצר, i was finding it extremely hard to break free. So i decide to just go get some fresh air outside to think about this...

I go out and it hit me! Everything that you guys have been saying about avoiding the יצר to not get in the ring and to avoid the fight...I finally understand! I figured out exactly what the יצר הרע does!

Let me explain:

I was looking at the בית מדרש and library from outside. And I was thinking what about the reason why i left the בית מדרש to begin with. The reason was because i like learning in the quiet, But while i thought that I was the one giving myself this reason, it was really the יצר הרע feeding me this reason. You see because what he was trying to do was bring me into the ring!!! He knows that he can't beat me in the בית מדרש when everyone else is with me, he has to take me away from everyone so he could fight me one on one! He knows he is stronger than me when we're in the ring!! When we're alone!

What he first tries to do is use the my own personality against me! He knows who i am. He knows that i like to learn in the quiet, so if he could lure me into the ring with a "legitimate" claim by telling me that i like learning in the quiet, he could then attack with his fake claims in the library! In the RING!!!

I was visualizing the בית מדרש as a haven from the יצר and the library as a boxing ring...Just me and him... IT was really geshmak finally figuring it all out!

ALL I HAVE TO DO IS STAY AWAY FROM THE RING!!! RUN TO WHERE HE CAN'T GET ME!! THE BEIS!!!

What you guys are telling me is GOLD! It's so logical! Its awesome!



One interesting thing though is that when i finally realized what i have to do, the יצר הרע was still nagging at me. Even after i figured him out, he was still trying. Even when i know LITERALLY every move he will make, he still tries. But as i kept on thinking about this (for about 45 minutes!! It was great!) the thoughts died down until he stopped...for now...

But all i have to do is figure out every place that he has an advantage and stay away...So simple!...(I hope.)

I hope no he doesn't think of any other tricks, (even though i know he will) but for now - I got him cornered... [That was funny because I'm not even in the ring...:P]

Anyway, thanks so much For your chizuk guys!! You really helped me!

Have a Great Shabbos!!!!!

Round 20 and 21 To ME!!!

(What a ratio! 20-1, One Round At a TIme!!)

אם פגע בך מנוול זה משכהו לבית המדרש

I know that's not really the poshut pshat in that gemara, but it works!

The main thing is to stay out of isolation. Stay with friends. Talk to people. GYE people, friends from your yeshiva, whatever. Don't go on your own. Who says you can beat the Y"H by your sheer mental abilities? Maybe that works for you sometimes, but will it work forever?

You are doing great! KOMT!

BringMoshiach613 wrote:

And my Yetzer Hora is so ILlogical, that it's shreklich.

Logic is almost completely useless in this "fight". If it were useful, we wouldn't need GYE. Trying to "outsmart" the Y"H is just another way to stay in the ring with him.

But don't I have to use logic to stay out of the ring? Don't i have to figure out where the ring is in order to stay away from it? How else would i do that without logic??

What other mechanisms are there for me to utilize?

We have to try not to allow the conversations with the yh. Don't argue. As soon as it tries to start up, we need to change the subject, move onto different thoughts, get busy with something else. Ignore the yh and let it go away.

Hatzlacha!

BringMoshiach613 wrote:
Trying to find the ring in order to stay away from it is like trying to figure out where the pretty girls are so that you don't look at them.

BringMoshiach613 wrote:


That is awesome to read!

gibbor120 wrote:


I don't mean that i want to physically go and search for the dark dangerous places becasue obvioiiuldy thats foolish. But i want to think about all the places that i frequent in order to determine which of those are the dangerous places and stay away from them.

If i didn't, it could happen that i will find myself in on eof these places and the יצר will catch me off guard. But if i do this then i could limit the chances. (Obviously ה׳ could make it hard anywhere i am but i think i need to put in the השתדלות in this regard.)

Isn't what I'm saying שמירת עינים? I am protecting myself from having to come in contact with any inappropriate images.

Round 22 and 23 were just wonderful!!

that is exactly where you need to fight the yetzer hara! take out all the triggers. don't give him any space.
He may come as a guest, but soon he will be behaving like he owns the house.

I have done martial arts in the past and what my teachers always taught me was that the greatest victory was the battle that you didn't have to fight. (meaning the one you could avoid)

chazak, chazak ve nischazeik!

Are you saying that i should never think about the fight? Never think about my struggle? Never think about anything even remotely associated with anything that might set me off??

I guess that makes sense, but this would mean that i shouldn't visit GYE. Every time i visit, I'm obviously thinking about my struggle.

Could that be??

What I think Mordechai means is to avoid the fight by staying away from triggers. Like if there is a sex shop on the route to work that triggers you to want to see porn, then take another route from now on. If there is advert material with scantily clad women that triggers you, then don't browse those adverts. If such things trigger you they can only be a negative influence. If the library for example does the same to you, being only a negative influence, then stay away. If there however is positive influence as in people helping and supporting you to stay clean, like GYE, then you don't need to dismiss it. Only if you would get more negative than positive influence from this website you should stay away and find other means to get help, but is that really the case?

This is exactly what i was thinking. How would i know if there is a sex shop on the way to work? Obviously i would have already passed it. But i could also "think" about the my route. Or any potential route. Basically thinking about where i could go and where i can't...

I totally agree with you Daniel.

Thanks.

BringMoshiach613 wrote:


Of course that could be. There is no question that many have left GYE for a few months because they found that thinking about the 'fight' makes them even worse...and they have reported back after a few months to say that things were going so much better!

Coming here is often necessary, if just to open one's eyes that he is not a pariah, not a worthless piece of garbage being 'the lone mushchas in the world who could ever be this sick and bad'. And to see that many let it go and quit beating themselves up over the sins they have done and the tendencies they have.

And they admit they need to avoid the temptations a lot more (as you pointed out) - even though that means surrendering a precious right we have grown to take for granted...just like the right we have taken for granted to be able to masturbate ourselves whenever we wish. Gone, given up, yup. It's OK, will not kill us - doesn't hurt us, at all.

Instead, we actually feel better and live better without the obsession about the struggle.

Unless we do not give up (for today) the right to use the lust, first. If we do not do that, then you realized that 'ignoring the struggle' must just mean deciding that it's just no big deal and fine if we use porn and masturbate whenever we want to for what's the difference, we are no worse than anyone else. And that is exactly what you wrote above you thought it was that people here were saying. Because you naturally assumed that all there is is fighting and beating, and that 'giving up the fight', means giving in - running faster than ever with what you call 'the yetzer hora'.

Oh, boy.

So in the same post that you declared amazing enlightenment above and wrote "I realized finally that all I need to do is stay away from the ring, run to where he cannot get me!" - you then wrote "Round 20 and 21 To ME!!!"

I don't think it works that way, pal.

Either you are in the ring and winning or losing - or there are no 'rounds' at all. You cannot have it both ways in your heart.

This is not a thing about 'how you say it'. It's not semantics. There is no escape. The way you see it and feel it to be in your own heart will determine how you are living: either fighting and winning, losing, taking credit, taking blame -- or giving up the right to unzip your pants and feel yourself completely. Giving up the right to fantasize about her doing a sex act on you or what she looks like without clothes on, or use the porn in the library again to make yourself the star of another sex adventure on your brain. Just let it go. For today.

If you do that and do not feel a sense of real loss...then I submit to you that you probably didn't do a thing , yet and that it's all just fancy talk.

You have probably been through some of this already, so you understand. It's gonna be OK. You don't need the adventures for today, no matter what your crotch is telling you.

If you really want this, you will be able to do all the things you need to do to have it. That is all that's needed, for a start.

You can't be sitting in the beis - yet still wearing those big red gloves, boxer shorts, and towel around the back of your neck. It just does not work that way. If every time you walk out of the beis, you (of course) just slip those gloves back on...then I submit to you that sitting in the beis was just a vacation between rounds to begin with. And that, chaver, is not Torah Lishma, anyhow. It may not even be a 'beis'...I don't know what it would be...

If you insist on the glory of winning - then you are seeking a thing I no longer chase, b"H. Maybe others here can. Certainly some here will talk like they can - whether they are correct remains to be seen.

And I honestly wish you luck.