Pidaini wrote:


Why is it bad to lust after your wife? I mean if you're both thinking the same thing...
Just asking.

yonatan wrote:

The olam should feel free to correct me on this, but if I am lusting (even for my wife), then I'm focusing on *me*... what *I* want, satisfying my selfish desires. Being intimate with one's wife should be an expression of one's love for her... it should be done for her sake, not the husband's own (at least least primarily). If instead, I'm using relations with my wife (primarily) to satisfy my own desire, then she's just an object I use to that end... which is absolutely the wrong type of feelings for a husband to cultivate regarding his wife.

Again - others should feel free to correct, or elaborate on, what I've said.

this has been discussed many places here; the most recent time is on the mikvah night thread. There is some tremendous discussion there and excellent eloquent posts. [I am not referring to mine; I am merely the object of everyone's [strike]lust[/strike] discussion.] Enjoy.

Tosfos, I believe that communication between husband and wife is so very important. I also believe it's important not to deny our humanity. Desires are part of that and within the bonds of marriage are constructive to the marriage itself. Women and men both should understand this and work with their spouse.

You may be focusing on yourself when lusting after your wife, but I hope your wife feels flattered and you find her so attractive and encourages you. The other way around applies the same way. Talk to each other about it.

I don't come from a frum background. My upbringing was what you might expect. I know that one is supposed to have kavanah when davening. Maybe there is such a thing in marital relations also. I don't know. But given that you are here to solve a problem, I'd cut myself a little slack on the other.

I'm just speaking my mind, bro. I want to help.

Tosfos wrote:

Well put, Tosfos.

Of course, we have a long history of doing things the wrong (read: selfish) way that we have to unlearn, but that is the goal.

yonatan wrote:


I cannot give a philosophical answer. I like to take the more practical approach. I learned by 'trial & error' that when one lusts after his wife, he has much more chance of following up with other lustful (non-kosher) activities. As Chazal explained it:
אבר קטן יש באדם, משביעו רבע, מרעיבו שבע
Or as the GYE handbook explains it:
The more you feed it, the more you need it.

Hatzlacha

MT

Hi yonatan,

As pointed out, this has been discussed many times on this forum, but I will share a bit here since you've asked.

There is a difference between the desires of normal people in a relationship and the desires of a lust addict. For someone who is addicted to this stuff, there is no satisfaction. It's all about him and his fantasy fueled mind. Real life does not match up to fantasy. Instead of viewing his wife as a person, he views her as a means to his own satisfaction.

And that is not healthy.

We need to get our "self" out of the picture. We want to be with our wives so that we can give and love her. Lust (selfishness) has to kicked out.

Thanks Skeptical. I've been here just 2 weeks (clean so far, B"H). I'm learning there are a lot of different kinds of problems than just mine. Thanks again for the "attitude adjustment."

Welcome!

Keep posting and hatzlacha in your journey!

Just want to put in a little more emphasis on the fantasy aspect which skeptical wrote.

I took porn and used it as a way to escape from real life. Real life usually wasn't the way I wanted it to be, and my first reaction to that is "go to your fantasy land, it's much better there" and that was porn/lust for me.

That being said, if my mind is in fantasy, it doesn't make a difference who (or what) the fantasy is about, it is still not reality.

Loving one's wife is reality, for as in all reality, it takes a lot of giving.

Whatever the case, KUTGW and KOT!!!!

I'm 16 days in. So far so good.

Talking about lusting after one's wife. We've been married 11 years now. I don't lust after her. I love her dearly. Looking back I think she taught me about love. I was scared before we got married. This is the 2nd time around for both of us. But for these 11 years she has been unconditionally committed to me I couldn't help but return that love and commitment. Before my wife I didn't think that kind of commitment even existed anymore. She's an eshet chayil. I feel blessed.

So that's another reason for me to get away from the porn. It's feels like a betrayal of my love and commitment to her.

yonatan wrote:



Lucky man! Enjoy!

MT

Fell today. Twice. Crashed and burned. Nothing too different about today except maybe stress about a job interview tomorrow. Went 19 days. Starting ever. Gotta rethink this.

Sorry to hear about your fall, as they say here "fell shmell".

The only thing that you should take from it is a lesson, as you wrote, to rethink this.

Let us know your thoughts, what you learned, they can be invaluable to us.

KOT, just KOT!!!

So you're human and you fell.

Pick yourself up and keep moving forward.

What can you do differently the next time you're in a stressful situation?