I sure hope you WILL continue to inspire us all! Please read the GYE handbooks, Tool #2 for some good tips on Shmiras Ainayim. And read through this page, top to bottom, for many great perspective tips that have made shmiras ainayim much easier for many people!

Will wrote on 17 Aug 2009 07:33:


Wow Will, we can be friends (even if you do  like to shecht sheep. uuuchh.)

I feel and felt (and will continue to feel) exactly as you post up there. I came striding in here.... and realized really quickly like you that this is the land of GIANTS.

So, first off, I'm officially giving you notice that my name is copyrighted and will be vigorously protected. And it included kutan², kutan³, etc (which I add on every time I read a really inspiring post that is way over me) all the way up to kutan⁶⁴ (which I used today in response to another one of Yechida's gems). And that includes all forms of koton, kutun etc. (i've got legal precedent when his Honorable Guard changed pintele.yid to pintele.jew, ruling it was an encroachment of a previosly staked, similar sounding name.

Legal stuff put away, I'd like to tell you you that shemiras eiynaim has been KILLING me for years. actually (gulp) decades. Not that I would not have my ups, but the ups were ones of tension.

like wow, I'm doing this unnatural big thing....

so they did not last.

But this summer, my shmiras eynayim has been WONDERFUL (bH). By wonderful, I mean that I ENJOYED it!  Its a thrill to walk in the street and not be 'controlled' by the women walking by, like a dog on a leash...

(Not recommending walking through Manhattan unless one needs to, of course... )

For me, what worked is realizing, from all the stories on this site, how disgusting lust is and how low it can bring a person. And then realizing that essentially there is no difference between lusting after a tznius'dike woman on the street or a filthy movie. Either way the person is identically out of control.

Then the aitza of giving up and humbly asking Hashem for help really kicked in. It feels GOOD to give up and ask Hashem for help. And I really felt like I wanted and needed that help. And somehow it works like a charm, once you get the technique right (I'm convinced there is an explanation b'derech hatevah for this, hope that doesn't make me an apikores)

And then, to top it off, this fellow named Uri came on to the forum, and he has nisyonos AD LISHAMAYIM (I shudder to think if I'd be in his shoes) and he was battling the YH like crazy. So I think... I'm going to give in to some small lust to look at some Puerto Rican trash who is dressed in a way that would get her arrested only 50 years ago?

Uri's off to yeshiva now, but have no fear, in this land of GIANTS there are many Uri's. Jack was busy on the forum before Uri, and I'm sure there are many in the making.

In case the words here speak to you, please check out the thread entitled "whats wrong with just looking" for more:

http://rehab-my-site.com/guardureyes/forum/index.php?topic=662.msg10200#new

I've read your wonderful piece about 'boosting the price" and it is extremely well written, besides being a great idea. But you'll need to build on it further, and despise lust, without any price... even for free... even if they'd pay me.... and then the whole thing gets to be easy and fun.

To quote the Satmar rav ztl, better look at the woman while thinking of the wall than to look away at the wall while thinking of the woman... :D :D :D

Warmest wishes

kutan

I've followed R Guard's link he gave you on shmiras eynayim tips, and they are so good that I'm taking the liberty of eating up more bandwidth and reposting them here:

Here are some more tips that I can think of now (for guarding the eyes on the street)...

1) Tell yourself that no matter how painful it feels NOT to look, it will be MORE PAINFUL to look. Why? Because when you look, there are two acute pains you will feel.
a) You feel suddenly far from Hashem and from your goals.
b) You know you can't have it anyway, and when you look - you desire it, and you can't have it, and it HURTS.
So essentially, the pain you feel when not looking is MUCH BETTER than the pain of looking.

2) The pain you feel when not looking is HEALING pain, like the pain from an important surgery. The pain is healing you. On the other hand, the spiritual pain of looking is the pain of the disease getting worse. Which pain do you choose?

3) The pain you feel when not looking is not really your pain at all. It is the pain of the Yetzer Hara in his "death throws". He is screaming that you are hitting him hard. So enjoy the pain! You are feeling the pain of your enemy as he dies!

4) The whole desire is a blown up bubble of hot-air, built around what we see and imagine in the mind. Experience has shown us all, that as soon as we get what we thought we wanted -- what we thought was going to be absolutely incredible (according to what we saw and fantasized), as soon as it's done, the bubble pops and all that's left is "hot air". And we are left shaking our head and not believing that this was the whole thing for which we sell our very souls.

So in essence, the fact that we struggle so much with shmiras ainayim and all these powerful fantasies, and the fact that we need to use such strength and give our hearts over to Hashem - this all is really Hashem's greatest gift to us.

This sounds a little strange, so let me explain what I'm trying to say:

If we would just be like the goyim and just give in and get all we wanted in these areas, we would have NOTHING at the end. Do they have joy from this? The minute it's over, they are left disillusioned and seeking other pleasures to fill the void they feel. So think about it. Hashem has chosen us and uplifted us from the filth of the world with such kindness. He has given us the opportunity to give him our very hearts! We have the opportunity to make all these "valiant" struggles every time we turn away from looking at something the Yetzer Hara wants us to look at. But what is the alternative, if we would give in? Nothing! Emptiness and disillusionment! The Yetzer Hara promises so much but delivers nothing! So what I'm trying to say is, that this whole blown up desire we have, and all these difficult struggles not to look, etc... it’s all really a "game" that Hashem is playing with us. He makes us feel we are "ripping out our hearts" for him - and he indeed gives us the reward AS IF WE DID RIP OUT OUR HEARTS and he allows us to come closer to him than any non-Jew could dream of coming, and yet, it's all a game. For if one would be able to see in advance the way he would feel after he would give in, he wouldn't even have a struggle!!



That is perhaps what Chaza”l meant when they said that one day the Tzadikim will weep with joy that they were able to overcome the mountain of the Yetzer Hara, and Resha’im will weep that they couldn’t overcome this little string of the Yetzer Hara. One may ask, how could the Yetzer Hara really be two things? Well, based on what we just wrote above, it could be that the Tzadikim are talking about the “mountain” that the Yetzer Hara “FELT LIKE” – when they DIDN’T give in. But the Resha’im are seeing the little “nothing” that the Yetzer Hara really was WHEN THEY GAVE IN.

So it’s really all a game of Hashem’s chesed and love for us. Hashem is really only asking of us to over come a “small string”, but he makes it LOOK like a mountain so that we can truly give him our hearts and get the tremendous reward he wants to give us!

Remember this, and you will stay strong even in what “feels like” the most difficult moments!

Keep posting here and may Hashem be with you on your journey!

Will,

We all relate to your situation.  Holy Yid posted the quote above, here's how I understand it.

All the tachbulos that are being posted are great.  They can and do work.  But like the shiur from R' Bentzion Twersky (I found the link somewhere on this site yesterday but can't remember where...?), they take a lot out of you.  There’s a constant struggle, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose (even if you don’t act out) and it’s very draining.  The long term answer is to address the root cause which is to change your character so that this is not something you want.  If you don’t want it, you won’t see it (he gives a mashal for this – listen to the shiur!).  You address the root cause by focusing on what you want instead (hopefully Torah and a connection to Hashem) and as you work on that you will slowly become that.  It’s a lofty goal but in the long run, it will put you in a different place entirely and all these strategies will become unnecessary.  And lofty goals are achieved step by step, one day at a time, as we know.  So start today!

aaron4 wrote on 19 Aug 2009 22:35:


Oh boy, aaron4, you made my evening!
That shiur is GREAT, and really substantiates the klalim that this site and handbook promote. And he explains how it fits exactly as the avoda of chodesh Elul, and finds a basis for it in the kapital of l'dovid that we say in Elul.
A phenomenal shiur!

Here is the link:

http://www.torahmedia.com/search/fileinfo.php?sid=l89mh53204i043s&cid=&directlink=29692&frompage=

Yes, I think it's a classic.  It explains the long term answer to this addiction in a Torah context from Torah sources.  Even Battleworn would approve!

Thanks for posting the link.

JD wrote on 19 Aug 2009 13:43:


JD...I see what you mean. As of now, and this is subject to change, I feel like there really really is a benefit of eye contact, posture,etc. It cant be just the Yetzer Hara telling me that because after all, I can think of MANY realistic situations where lack of posture or eye contact would make things more difficult...Like shidduchim...

Holy Yid wrote on 19 Aug 2009 17:06:

Good advice...I tried davening for different people as I walked once, and that seemed to help a lot. I need to make it a habit.kutan shel hachabura wrote on 19 Aug 2009 21:40:

I cracked up!

kutan shel hachabura wrote on 19 Aug 2009 21:40:


Wow Kutan...Your post has SO many solid points in it. You're very right about these things...Ive read about "Changing yourself and the way you think" around the site, but your post has really hit it home. You left me with a lot to think about...I think you're right, we can definitely become friends. And I must admit...your avatar is cute. But it would be cuter on my grill.

aaron4 wrote on 19 Aug 2009 22:35:


SOLID!! Wow, your post coupled with Kutan's has really made me re-evaluate things for the better. This is gonna be much tougher than I thought...Im going to listen to the Shiur you recommended first chance I get.

Day 3- I wasnt in too many hard situations today except on the way to a wedding. I was in a cab on the way and..getting stuck in traffic in Geulah is NOT healthy for the eyes. I was having an extremely hard time keeping my eyes to myself so I went to an extreme (as per Nezach's advice)...I put my jacket over my head. Needless to say, the taxi driver was getting a bit worried.."Ehhh...Hakol Beseder?" he asked. "Ken, ken...Hakol beseder" I replied, leaving the jacket on my head. I think Im going to make myself a pair of Steipler sunglasses (he gave advice to make these) and black out the lenses on a pair of aviators, save for two small wholes to see through. Cab drivers will thank me.

Day 4- Oy. Today was not a good day for me. I went to Tiveria with a few friends and uhh...on the walk to the Kosher beach my eyes wandered a bit. Okay a lot. It wasn't 'wandering' like I usually do, but it was enough to make me upset at myself. I was still able to pull my eyes away more than normal but I caught myself sneaking second glances...Hashem was not smiling. I don't know whether I call this a slip or a fall or what...I think its more of a fall because after all, I chose to look twice. I was very upset the whole way back but after reading the posts here on changing who I am and my outlook on lust, Im feeling much better. I need to switch up the game plan and play defense from a different angle.

Thank you guys so much for your support...it means a lot 

Will wrote on 20 Aug 2009 22:31:



Dear Will,

Looking twice is not, necessarily, a fall. 

Rabbi Millers 30 day Handbook program is definatly an "Eye Opener" Ummmmmm no ummm I meant a Eye Opener to guide us in Closing our Eyes!

Yeah! That's more like it.

It's a must read like all GYE Hand Books.

E.L.

Kedusha- What then, would you call a fall? And what would you call a slip?

Efshar- Yea, it definitely is a must read...I could've sworn that I saw you as a moderator a day ago?

Will wrote on 21 Aug 2009 07:28:


Dear Will,

See this link, Rule #8.

guardyoureyes.org/woh/WOHRules.php

Kedusha wrote on 21 Aug 2009 11:39:


Ahhh, Kedusha I see Ive misunderstood you. I realize what an official "fall" or "slip" is considered on the site...What I meant was a "fall" within my 'bechira box', if you will. Just like intentionally seeking out erotica is a fall for someone struggling hard with Z"L, I feel like intentionally seeking lust (i.e. looking twice) is a fall, or at the very least a slip,within my struggle. Would you agree?

If you look twice, it's an Aveira, but not necessarily a fall within the GYE rules.

Kedusha wrote on 21 Aug 2009 14:05:

I think we're saying the same thing.