ERR EXCUSE ME

LUKSHIN-KUPP

THATS BETTER

Lokshen, schmokshen....

Hey shmockshen could be considered a vulgarity.

Here's some great chizuk from sefer esa einay quoting sefer Taharas Hakodesh.

I have been thinking (sorry Dov ) about the concept that much of our addiction comes from the fact that we feel empty inside, so we use lust in all it's various forms to fill that void.

We are frum yidden.  We learn, we daven, do chessed.  Some of us are in kollel or were in kollel.  Some here are in kli kodesh.  We do all the things that should fill the void.  Why don't they?

I have a couple of theories, but I'm curious to hear what the chashuva GYE community thinks.

we tend to void the goods as if they dont count, and magnify the few wrongs, its human nature
its called perfectionisim, if we are not 100% PERFECT TOP NOTCH, then its ZERO value, 99% wont do, as there is a 1% missing therefore its a complete failure

Very interesting, I hadn't thought of it that way.  I guess we see the hole in the doughnut rather than the doughnut.

Gibor, thanks for sharing those great excerpts from Taharas Hakodesh, they are gevaldig!

regarding your well-put question about why some feel empty inside even though they are going through the motions and doing everything that marks them as a torah-jew. Shmeichel has a very good point. just want to add another idea.

In the first chelek of Bilvavi Mishkan Evneh he brings a vort from Rav Povarsky from Ponovezh. Chazal say that even reshoim are melayim mitzvos kerimon. even sinners are full of miztvos like a pomegranate. Why are they called sinners if they have so many mitzvos?

He answers, a pomegranate is unique in that it has many seeds and the edible flesh surrounds each seed individually. different than an apple which is a unit of mostly edible flesh with a small area with seeds. so too, the reshoim DO a lot of mitzvos, they may even learn and daven, put on tefilin, tzitzis, shofar lulav etc., but they are all individual acts and not part of a concerted effort and enterprise. Torah and mitzvos are meant to all lead to the RBSO. they are all details of a master-plan. not individual acts that may done by rote. so even if the outer trappings are all there, the heart, the relationship is missing.

Nice vort, and idea. Thanks.  That was along the lines of one of my theories.  I'll have to think about it while eating pomegranite this year.

goot thought
what is the main difference between the pom type and the apple type?

I think that perhaps part of the answer is that much of my avodah is self serving.  I am not really serving hashem at all.  When I am at the center of my avodah and not hashem, it's not suprising that it does not fill me up.  Giving fills us up.  Self serving avodah is taking.  It's similar to zemmy's point about "mindless" avodah.

I like Shmeichel's point too.  Even if I am filling myself up.  If I don't appreciate it, and focus on what I am lacking, of course I will feel empty.  I would add that this need for perfection is also not serving hashem.  It's my need to be perfect to feel that I am worth something.

Of course there is also the chicken and egg theory.  I started very young.  Perhaps I didn't start because I felt empty, but repeatedly acting out made me feel empty and the vicious cycle began.

Just my thoughts... as imperfect as they may be .

very good point you have there. very sobering. a lot of what i think of as avodas Hashem is really avodas ME.

I once heard from a rebbi, that when he really "gets into" kabolas shabbos and then goes home.  If it was a "spiritual" experience, he will be more patient with his wife and kids.  If he finds himself impatient, it's a siman that it was not.  I hope I'm repeating it correctly.  Again, it's the difference between giving and taking.  In giving mode, we have patience.  In taking mode, we tend to see everyone else as getting in our way.

I'm reminded of the story of the boy who when his rebbe asked what is the most important thing in life, he replied cholint!  The boy explained, whenever I say my d'var torah at the shabbos table, my father doesn't listen.  He is busy eating his cholint, so cholint must be the most important thing .  Sad, maybe he was yanky's brother... and maybe this belongs on the cholint thread.

wow, great discussion Gibbor.  Zemiros and Shmeichel, love the answers.  Very helpful.  And GIbbor I think your interpretation is very interesting.  Striving for perfection and obsessing about perfection, without appreciating the context and Who we are trying to be perfect for, is part of the problem.

The Slonimer ztl also talks about this in his work Netivot Shalom. I have an english copy if anyone wants.  He says there are many Torah knowledgeable Yid with mitzvos, that have failed to work on their characters, and so without it, ein derech eretz, ein Torah.  Huge. 

IMHO, a major mitzvah is lacking if one's Torah learning is not connected to his character.  To the point where a person is not really "shomer mitzvos" if his character is lacking, because the mitzvos cannot be "shomered" when a person has rampant character flaws.

What an important topic. Thanks gibor. There are lots o ways to look at this I think. I like all the thoughts brought out here.