Today it occurred to me that I've not been successfully pinpointing the Yetzer Hara.

I've always thought that when I'm in the grip of acting out, glued to the internet, wading through website after website, then the Yetzer Hara has struck.  However, I'm now thinking, that the Yetzer Hara is actually a stage before.  The situation I've described is simply my body taking over - all the chemical reactions or whatever in full flow.  The Yetzer Hara is what gets me there in the first place.  All the intellectual negotiation that goes on prior to sinning - that is the Yetzer Hara. 

I don't know if I'm making any sense and I don't know if there's necessarily a nafka mina. 

Any thoughts?

You're right on target.  Once we're about to fall, the y"h barely needs to lift a finger.  The trick is to make good choices earlier on.

Hi YC

You’re absolutely right. The YH is at the early stage making us believe that we need it or it is not as bad as it looks etc. Once he successfully passes that first step the rest is just history.
Chaza"l also tell us: 'ein odom choite elo im kein nichnas boi ruach stus'. If that’s the case why does a person get punished for sinning if he is considered a shoita at that time? The answer is your point. He is getting punished because he let the 'ruach stus' enter in the first place. Once the 'ruach stus' is there, there is (almost) no turning back.
That is probably also one of the reasons why bad thoughts are considered in chazal worse than the sin itself as the thoughts are the once who bring the ruach stus.

Hatlocho u'brocho and be gebensht

i think the key thing is to keep the yh out,once you open the door just a crack ,he will force his way in ,then he is the boss telling you what to do ,and before its to late your his servant

like chazal are saying on (tehilim 1,1 ) Ashrey hoish asher loy holach beatzas....  first the person only "holach" just passing by. Soon he gets to "omad" already standing where he should'nt. Then he ends with "yoshav" He is already sitting with Leitzim.

Not that this really makes a difference to the point you made, but I just wanted to point out that your quote if from the first perek of tehillim, not perek 119. But either way, you're absolutely right. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Yossi chaim: You can't be more right then what you are proclaiming to us. As you see the more you are fighting the war against YH the more you're understanding the war schemes.
Tomid: I love you're proof. do you have a mikor for it?

2ndChance wrote on 26 Dec 2010 16:29:


Chovas Halvovos, Shar Cheshbon Hanefesh  The 14th Cheshbon (i think its perek 3)
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?sits=1&req=35386&st=%u05D0%u05E9%u05E8%20%u05DC%u05D0%20%u05D4%u05DC%u05DA

tomid besimcha wrote on 24 Nov 2010 17:19:

I meant this Vort

I heard it long time ago. I will try to find it.

Similar idea (but not exactly defining the YH) is an explanation for "maavir rishoin rishoin". That if a person sins one time and the a 2nd time than its already like  "heter"  permitted as chazal say in kidushin 39 "kivon she'ovar veshono nasis loy keheter. So hashem can't really blame him for all the following aveiros. The main taano is the first 2 aveiros. Thats maavir rishoin rishoin, we ask hashem to forgive the first 2 aveiros the rest is not really my fault.

Nice Vort

tomid besimcha wrote on 26 Dec 2010 16:54:


The Satmar Rov in Devrei Yoel Parshas Lech,  Page 313 is explaining with above vorth the Possuk: Al tizkor lonu avoynos reshoyinim.

The Pri Megodim also says that the main punishment a person gets is because of the first sins. Afterwards he is already forced to continue.

That brings me to the question: The first couple of times i m*b, I was a shoggeg, I did not know that it is a sin at all. So are all the subsequent times also considered a shoggeg even after I got to know that it is a grave aveiroh?