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My hot takes on what works and doesn't*(for me*)

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If you've made progress - thank G-d, double your merit by inspiring others as well! Post the tips and advice that worked best for you in your journey to sobriety or tell us about recommendations you heard from others that work.

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TOPIC: My hot takes on what works and doesn't(for me) 286 Views

My hot takes on what works and doesn't(for me) 05 Feb 2025 15:11 #430825

notezy
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Hot take #1 "90 days."
Don't read this if you are on a role or are having success with your 90 days plan I think it will only serve to uninspire you and that's not my goal.

Warning: Spoiler!

"Excuses are the tools of incompetence" -My Friends Friend.

"Change will lead to insight far more often than insight will lead to change" -Milton H. Erickson
But I guess you can learn from the insights other have attained through change.

The can't, won't sustainably defeat the want.
-Gye vaad (quoting TBOTG)

Paltiel succeeded because his excitement was stronger than his desire. Which helped him attain mastery over himself. -TBOTG

Last Edit: 05 Feb 2025 15:11 by notezy.

Re: My hot takes on what works and doesn't(for me) 05 Feb 2025 17:47 #430833

BenHashemBH
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https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/402116-Chooseurnames-90-day-trip?limit=15&start=555#425920

"chosemyshem" post=425920 date=1732716877 catid=4

chaimoigen wrote on 27 Nov 2024 00:36:

KUTHWMF

Can you please expand on this ?

Side point: I think the SA chiluk between sobriety and recovery is a definition that's sadly lacking on GYE.

My favorite sentence! Certainly.

Basically, there's a difference between not acting out, and doing the inner work to create a new way of life. Not acting out is being sober, even if the only reason you're not acting out is because your wife drop-kicked you so hard your hands fell off. Recovery requires changing your way of thinking and your way of living. Perhaps because GYE is structured around the ninety days chart, there's no emphasis on here about the difference between the two stages. And I think that's a real problem for two reasons.

First, many people need to pick their head above water for a bit before they can start really working. They need a few weeks of not acting out before they can think properly about the sugya. There should be an emphasis on just getting a few days in at all costs in order to start working on it. I was definitely like this for a long time, and I think it would've been helpful for someone to tell me back in the beginning, "Just force yourself to get a month clean and then start thinking".

Second, there are people who have gotten sober for longer, but never worked on recovery. The stereotype is someone who's filtered to the max and is okay, but the second he has extended access to unfiltered internet he falls. Or the guy who is okay for the 90 day streak and then by day 93 he's right back in it. (And stereotypes aside, there are many people like this.) That's because he didn't take advantage of the sober time to do the inner work of recovery. He used external tools or sheer willpower to hang on, but has not changed his way of thinking, his mehalech haChaim.

If I was in charge, I'd divide the 90 day chart in half. The first half would be all about sobriety: just filtering up, accountability, TAPSHICHs, streaks etc. Just forcing yourself to be clean long enough to take a breath and start thinking. Then the second half would turn to recovery. Find the joy in being clean, understand your urges and triggers and learn long term different responses, change your way of life. I think many people would benefit from an understanding and emphasis on the two different phases.

Today is yesterday's tomorrow.
The yetzarim a person has the most trouble dealing with are his most powerful God-given tools for developing his potential and achieving shleimus.
It doesn't matter how big the number is, only that today it is going up by one.
There is no "just" when it comes to lust.

Please feel free to reach out. I'd appreciate connecting with you (via GYE, email, or phone - whatever floats your boat)
A little about me: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/412971-I-Want-to-Help-Others

Re: My hot takes on what works and doesn't(for me) 05 Feb 2025 18:08 #430834

BenHashemBH
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Shalom Brother,

I think these posts are great points related to what you are bringing up (I'm sure there are others, but I remember and knew where to look for these).

Kol Tov!

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/424325-Chizzuk-Needed?limit=15&start=225#429076

simchastorah wrote on 14 Jan 2025 06:25:

tzitzis dude wrote on 14 Jan 2025 00:19:

simchastorah wrote on 13 Jan 2025 07:37:

tzitzis dude wrote on 13 Jan 2025 06:20:

To be honest, I’ve been thinking on how I could up my game, this thread is frustrating me by showing me that it’s quite simple, (albeit difficult) to take that step.

Can you please expound on this? What do you mean by upping your game? How has this thread shown you that it's simple? Why is it difficult?

You ask some doozies, my friend.

Upping my game? To strengthen myself to want to stay clean and reinforce that I don’t want to fall. To be more honest with myself and to be mindful of pitfalls.

How did this thread show me that it’s simple? Well, it seems that you’re on a good path, and that your journey is in a a good, steady place. And how did you get to where you are? By being accountable. By being honest and vulnerable. By keeping up with your original commitment to keep on posting.

Why is it difficult? Lol. Like is hard if you’re doing it right, changing stinks and my comfort zone is decently cozy. By committing to something as you have, that’s taking a step which my subconscious wants to avoid. Besides for which, deep deep down, I kinda want a way to act out- free of accountability- if the urge “really” strikes. (Krumm, I know. But that’s how my mind works. Welcome to Tzitzis Dude’s World.)
In addition to all that, by taking the next step, I’m showing myself that I haven’t been doing enough.

I’d legit love feedback.

Thanks for the clear and thought out response.

Firstly, in your "upping my game" definition most if not all of what you describe is not in the category of 'concrete action', but rather in a more abstract middos place. "I want to be a certain way", "I want to want a certain thing."

I think it's natural and correct for our aspirations to be in the abstract. But the only way to get there is through actions אשר תולדותם זה הענין, preplanned actions which will bring about the desired 'abstract' result.

Coming to the next part, how you see from this thread that it's simple. Here you describe what the action is. 'Being accountable' is abstract. 'Being honest and vulnerable' is abstract. Keeping up with a commitment to keep posting, that's concrete. So we could say that an action which is מוליד the desired result here might be posting daily. In that context the person can try and post in a way which is honest, and posting may bring accountability. But it's all based on the concrete action of posting.

Now I can't fully attribute the gift of the cleanliness of the past few months to the daily posting, but I do agree that it's been a part of it. Hard to measure how important each chelek is.

Regarding the difficulty, like everyone, you have conflicting rtzonos. On the one hand we have noble aspirations like the ones you mentioned, and on the other hand we want to indulge, or we want to be able to protect ourselves from scary feelings in an easy and familiar way - whatever. (wa'eva). And if I'm hearing you right, when you come to try and make plans from the perspective of the noble feelings, the other feelings get in the way.

I can tell you what helps me with this - thinking about what I want in a more abstract way (abstract -> action -> abstract). Thinking what do I really want in life? Not in the lmaysah level, because on the level of action I am confused already - the actions that I want already include acting out, or trying to impress, or speaking lashon hara, or whatever. But in a pure thought level, without jumping to what will I have to commit to. So for example in your case I could imagine having an internal process like - "I want to be more honest. Why do I want to be more honest? Because that will ensure me a better experience in life in this world and the next. Honesty brings a person to recognize reality as Hashem wants us to, and this brings towards dveikus in Hashem. The true tov is dveikus in Hashem. There is a natural mistake in human beings to pull us away from that good for reasons x y and z, but this is the true good." (wa'eva, the point is a logical thought process that doesn't get involved in action, which addresses whats desirable as well as how what's undesirable comes to appear desirable.) After working on clarifying in a logical way, then to think about an action. Ok - I've clarified that I want a certain abstract tov. Right now, in this moment it's utterly (halevai!) clear to me what I really want. Now I want to commit to a certain action, lets say posting daily. Posting daily will help me bring about that true good. How? _____________. And when the thought about what it will 'take away' from me crops up, I can tell myself "yes, I know that I have mistaken perspectives, and it makes sense that I do. But the true good is like I clarified for myself before."

I hope this is helpful to you, if something about what I said is not clear please let me know.

Last Edit: 05 Feb 2025 18:09 by BenHashemBH.

Re: My hot takes on what works and doesn't(for me) 05 Feb 2025 19:13 #430838

BenHashemBH
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https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/414745-Chaims-Oigen?limit=15&start=30#429005

chaimoigen wrote on 13 Jan 2025 14:19:

Here's another, in similar vein as the previous, that made it to the GYE weekly email. With some small additions:

Why the GYE Forum Could Be Your Key to Lasting ChangeBy: Chaim Oigen

With a spirit of humility, care, and respect I would like to share some thoughts on lasting and internal change.
There's been discussion on the GYE forum about folks who feel euphoric about finally breaking free, only to face the reality that the internal problem is still there. Some say "hugs," charts, and accountability are just distractions from the real work of internal change.

Here are my thoughts: Yes, change must be internalized to last. An addiction can't be cured with optimistic positivity alone. But the value of these forums in creating lasting change is profound and undeniable.

Here's why: You can only take step two after step one. It's terrifying to communicate with others, even behind anonymity. The forums provide a critical first step, and a warm welcome encourages people to stick around, make connections, and learn about ways to grow.

The reality is that most of us have tried to fix this problem alone and failed. That means "just stopping" isn't really an option for almost anyone who finds themselves on GYE. If someone has been using P&M to fill a deep aching need for years, against better judgment, merely talking about wanting to stop won't create real changes.

But here's the thing - a human is a marvelously complex piece of work, fueled by a cosmic Neshoma, weighed down by childhood upbringing, his Yetzerim and personality, and the burdens of unrequited hopes and dreams. Complex situations and relationships. Sheifos, goals, setbacks. And life. People! It ain't easy to fix em up.

We are all muddling through, best as we can. And it takes trial and error, working from the outside to the inside. We have to try. Genuinely. Start with what we can wrap our heads around. Make mistakes. Ask questions. Keep trying. Learn new things. Sometimes it penetrates, sometimes it doesn't. You need mentors and friends, methods and self-realization. And with Siyata Dishmaya, things will be different - if you keep trying.

These forums are sacred and special because they provide tools for genuine change and growth in a way that I haven't seen before. They are:

- A safe place to recognize that your life has become unmanageable

- A place to make friends by sharing and caring

- A place to connect with a fellowship of people who actually understand
- A place to discover and learn from people who have shared their personal life experiences, experience that no one really shares elsewhere. There's no substitute, when it comes to learning, for LIFE EXPERIENCE

- A place to face up to your own mistakes and learn how to make amends

- A place to learn profound truths about yourself, Yiddishkeit, marriage, and relationships

- A place to discover what works for you

And maybe most importantly - the forums are where people receive the gift of opportunity to actually meet with real people, when they get to that stage, which leads to indescribable potential for healing.

A lot of the real healing with mentors here takes place offline, without a clear record in the forums (so if you haven't yet, talk to someone).

May Hashem bless GYE. I have a paper with all the names of the guys I've met and spoken with, and I daven for you regularly. Because I love you and hope that we'll all keep growing together, each in his own way, with Hashem's help.

מאן דבעי חיים

Re: My hot takes on what works and doesn't(for me) 05 Feb 2025 21:43 #430841

ezraw
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Hey, I've been around here for a while, and I don't post very often.
But I felt the need to publicly thank you @notezy for bringing up such an important topic.
I sometimes forget this, and that inevitable leads to a fall.
So thanks again for bringing it to people's attention, and for the reminder ☺️
Wishing you much Hatzlacha,
All the best,
Ezra W

Feel free to contact me privately with any questions or comments here on the GYE private messages or at ezrawrecovery@gmail.com (more likely to respond/see it if you email me directly. Although Google chat is easiest for me)

Warning: Spoiler!

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Warning: Spoiler!