Loss of Torah knowledge
Loss of spiritual sensitivity
Immediate punishment
Eternal Gehinnom
Chibut HaKever
Kaf HaKela
Loss of a wife and children
Loss of the opportunity to convert
Depression
Permanent exile
Labor in vain
Premature baldness
Permanent fatigue
Loss of Ruach HaKodesh
Prayers in vain
Treating the Torah casually
Being an enemy of HaShem
Loss of Yirat Shamayim
Loss of bitachon
Loss of the Shechinah

gertoshav9 wrote on 27 Jul 2024 22:45:

Tying very hard to fight it

gertoshav9 wrote on 27 Jul 2024 22:45:


I'll disagree with everything you wrote.
Everything. 
You can still sin and be close to Hashem and learn Torah and have bitachon and yiras shamayim.

Is this a cry for help? 
Sounds like it!

odyossefchai wrote on 29 Dec 2024 20:55:

Each person has to find the contemplations which will bring him to keep the Torah, both the חובות האברים and the חובות הלבבות. And if thinking about certain things causes a person to have a harder time keeping the Torah, then that's a siman that thinking about those things for that particular person at that particular time is עצת היצר. But it doesn't necessarily mean that those things are not true. So maybe for you at this point in your life thinking about the terrible consequences of these sins that we here all struggle with is not helpful, and if so you don't need me to tell you not to think about it.
But can you really deny that sin is מרחיק us from Hashem and has many negative consequences in this world and the next?

Sorry the lure of the soapbox was too strong to resist. Must have had too many latkes

simchastorah wrote on 29 Dec 2024 21:49:


Ok let's pretend any of what you said is true (it isn't in my opinion, proof is, it doesn't work, isn't relevant and has never stopped someone from m*********) 
I'll take Rashi's mehalech. 
Rashi says that one time of a mitzvah is worth 500 times one avaeirah. 
And that's if they are equally hard. 
Imagine if it's hard for someone to stop himself from M, and then one time he manages to prevent himself from doing it, then that is equal to more than 500 times where he didn't stop himself.
So according to you, if one time of M causes eternal gehinom (whatever made up nonsense that is) then one time controlling ones self would be the equivalent of 500 times of eternal gan eden. 
You see how this list is flawed? 

I have never heard anywhere that someone who has an almost uncontrollable yetzer hara and falls because of it, gets eternal gehenom. He doesn't. Coz it ain't true. 
The mishna at the beginning of the last perek of Sandhedrin says KOL Yisroel yeah lahem chelek laolam habah. 
There are some people that don't, but the mishna gives us names. Like yeravam. He made millions of Jews serve avodah zara and therefore caused the destruction of the first Beis hamikdash. 
I don't think someone who has a yetzer hara struggle is in that category. 

We can all tone down the rhetoric. 
Reshaim are people like Hitler, Haman, Antoyochus, Titus etc. 
Not someone who struggles and feels guilty about a difficult yetzer hara.

I'll take it one further. I'm a little passionate about it because HKBH loves us, and does not hate us. The list provided above sounds like something a monster would do. Not the Av Harachaman. Not HKBH who said אהבתי אתכם. 

I quote chazal. Not emotions, not feelings and nothing I made up. 
If you don't like it, let's look at the Gemara in Brachos 12b just before the wide lines. 
The Gemara says that anyone who feels guilty about an aveirah he did, is immediately forgiven. 
AND the Gemara gives us a proof. 
From Shaul. 
What was Shaul's aveirah? He slaughtered an entire city of Kohanim. I'm sure falling to M*** when someone is feeling depressed is worse, right? Of course not. 
Shaul was a mass murderer. Of innocent kohanim. And yet HKBH forgave him. 
Hold on, I'm not done yet. 
Hashem forgave him because he felt guilty. 
Not even feeling guilty because he did something bad. He felt guilty that his Rebbe-Shmuel knew about it. So he didn't even regret doing it, and yet Hashem forgave him. 
So מיהיכי תיתי we can just get up in public and say that someone who has a very painful yetzer hara that he regrets every second of his life, is a rasha and getting eternal gehinom etc etc. 
It bothers me so much. I'm sorry for my strong words. 
But it pains me. We are am hanivchar. Beloved by Hashem. Yisroel af al pi shechata, Yisroel hu. 
Banim lamakom. 

This list has never ever helped me be clean for more than 5 minutes. It used to be whenever I would hear a shiur like this list I would fall RIGHT afterwards because I felt like such a Rasha and I would think our hashem hates me anyways mind as well fall. Now I Know none of that is true and hashem is mamish giving me this test to help me become great. #less shame more gain. 

ps. Stick around and reach out it will help you gain a more positive outlook on this struggle. 

odyossefchai wrote on 30 Dec 2024 00:04:

Bruh I don't understand. Shaul killed one small city. How many kohanim lived in Nov anyway, a couple hundred?

Don't you know that each drop of zerah kodesh spilled is killing more babies than Hitler ever killed? 

Open a Zohar, man. This aveirah is so chamur it can't even be put in the Torah. I mean, the proof is clear. Not only does it cause eternal gehinom it also causes premature baldness! Can you think of a single other aveira that causes premature baldness? No! Because nothing else in the whole torah is that chamur.

Anyway. I apologize for the leitzunus. I don't know why Hashem loving us is a stirah to an aveirah being chamur? But I do know that people who shtell lists like that spend too much time thinking about everyone's penis.

True story, with many details obfuscated. A Rav was speaking to someone who may have sexually abusing a family member (it's complicated, but assume for this story that they were but no one could prove it). The Rav referred them to the Shach(?) that says it's better to masturbate than to have relations with a niddah, and suggested that the person masturbate instead of molesting their relative. The abuser's response? "But, but that's assur?!"

chosemyshem wrote on 30 Dec 2024 19:45:

בית שמואל אה”ע סי’ כ”ג ס”א בשם ספר החסידים

Yo there all you guys who happen to know this Mareh mokom.

There should be a list of the various (obscure or otherwise) mareh mkomos that somehow make themselves known to fellow strugglers

We cannot erase the Shulchen Aruch's calling this aveira "chamur mikol aveiros", nor any of the other divrei Chazal, Zohar etc. But somehow the Steipler (i was told it was him) supposedly told a struggler who complained that after holding back a bit and trying to stop was nichshal "I want to kiss the hand that did not do it 1,000 times". If that mehalech was good for such a gaon and tzaddik who knew and believed b'emuna shleima in all divrei Chazal, we can do the same, and use that perspective.

Hashem Help Me wrote on 09 Jan 2025 12:35:

The Steipler writes in a letter that the sefarim discuss at great length how horrible the aveira is but almost nothing is discussed of the great schar that comes to someone who withstand the nisoyon even only sometimes.
In addition, my rebbe learned in Philly Yeshiva as a bachur under R'Shmuel shlita and Ybc'l R' Elya Zt"l.There is  sefer written with all the mamarei chazal about how terrible Bittul Torah is and what awaits someone who is mevatel torah. Everything he writes is from chazal. The sefer even has a haskama from R' Chatzkal Levinstien ZT"L.  My rebbe tells me that the sefer was removed from the shelfs in the yeshivah. NOt because it was not true. It certainly was. It was removed because it was not helpful to make  people think like that. We are better off focusing on the positive. That is motivational!