Lets take action with our own hands - 
If we all would send this to the gye admin it would be have a greater impression- i did and you all can do to!

Please see this post - a very important idea - it can be tweaked, but the jist is grreat and important
https://gye.nu/forum/2-What-Works-for-Me/411978-Navigating-the-ocean-of-my-life?limit=15&start=195#429344

Great idea. Does anyone know if there is movement from GYE on this?

Reply from Chaim [GYE]
I agree. I'll review it with management - thanks!!

Something that’s been on my mind over the last few weeks, as a result of talking to a few of my friends. 

A guy makes a decision, enough is enough. He begins the hard work, F2F, SA, TBOTG, posting, reaching out, or whatever works for him. As time passes, he realizes that the overwhelming urges are beginning to subside somewhat in frequency and intensity. At the same time, his bedroom life is improving dramatically, his wife notices his efforts, and Shalom Bayis reaches new levels. Lust is going down, love is on the rise. As his journey makes more progress and he gains clarity and confidence, he begins to taste the exhilarating taste  of freedom. He’s on top of the world, and is filled with a heady sense of יגעתי ומצאתי. With confidence and ease, he clears hurdle after hurdle, ably overcoming challenges that were previously insurmountable. By any account, sounds like a success story, and it definitely is.

Our hero is filled with a sense of purpose, and wants to share what worked for him with the whole world. If I could climb out of the depths of where I was, so can anyone. So he shares his journey, placing great emphasis on how easy and manageable life has become in an effort to demonstrate how he subdued his YH. 

I don’t know how to put this, but there in something a little bit off with this attitude. I wouldn’t have written anything about it, but no less then 3 guys I spoke to recently were hurt by the well meaning comments that were shared in such a manner. 

When a guy trumpets his success by sharing how his urges are gone, it shouldn’t be done with a sense of pride, rather with a sense of humility and gratitude to 'ה for the gift of freedom. There are many guys out there that are managing to stay clean, but are doing so despite the fact that they aren’t feeling liberated from their YH. Are these guys not making progress, are they doing something wrong? Is it always a case of, “If your feelings of lust aren’t going down, you must not be fighting correctly. Fight smarter not harder.”? I think not. The essence of progress in this journey isn’t measured by how much the urges dissipate or how much your bedroom life has improved. Those are benefits, and a gift that 'ה sometimes gives to those that put in effort. For some the gift comes as soon as they put in the effort, for others it may take bit longer, and for others certain gifts that generally come with recovery may never come. Does this mean that progress hasn’t been made? 

To me, real progress is measured by how much falling has become a non - option to the individual. Not by how much he’s not struggling or by how he feels on any given day. These might be indicative of progress, because it’s gift that usually given to those that are working on themselves, but it’s not the progress itself. A guy can be in the clutches of lust and still be making amazing progress. When a guy changes his mindset, from P&M being a bad choice to not being a choice at all, that’s real progress. He might be struggling mightily, but if he can maintain this outlook, hopefully over time he’ll be gifted with the gifts that others received. 

This doesn’t mean, if he falls he hasn’t progressed. Setbacks happen, in any journey, but as long as he’s moving in the right direction, to a mindset where sin is no longer an option he’s making progress. To the extent that he’s incorporated it in to his mind, that’s the barometer of his progress. 

The רמב"ם when he depicts what תשובה גמורה is, writes that when there’s a scenario of the same woman in the same setting "והוא עומד באהבתו בה" that he committed his original עבירה, and he refrains from doing it, that’s the ultimate בעל תשובה. I’m assuming that the אהבה he’s referring to here, is lust not love. Yet we see that even though this guy hasn’t made any progress in terms of how much he’s lusting, he’s still a בעל תשובה גמורה. 

I don’t in any way mean that people should stop sharing there feelings of how their urges are subsiding, that’s not only okay, it’s encouraged. There’s nothing wrong with sharing your successes with your friends here, we’re happy for you and hope it continues. Additionally, it can be a huge Chizzuk and motivation to those that are beginning their journey, to know that usually gifts of sobriety and real love follows hard work. All I’m asking is when you share, do so with sensitivity, from a perspective of gratitude and humility, that you’ve been gifted with something special, as your efforts have been rewarded in a way that some people have yet to experience.

amevakesh wrote on 26 Jan 2025 12:54:

Beautiful and caring words from the heart, as always Amevakesh.
Thank you.

You make an interesting point. But I disagree that there’s a proper basis for you and the 3 guys to be hurt. From your perspective, a guy shouldn’t learn or Daven with hislavus lest on observer would be filled with kinah. Posting is a means for self motivation and to motivate others. As with everything else in life, it is up to the reader/observer not to get jealous. Or to use the jealousy effectively;. Kinas sofrim tarbe chochma. 
Posting one’s achievements is one of the purposes of the forum. While your proposal may have validity, you and your friends reactions are incorrect. Looking forward to reading of your accomplishments. 

@livingagain please don't just tell people that they're feelings are wrong. They're feelings are natural that they see others success and it can make them feel like they're maybe doing something wrong or just feel like "why does it seem so easy for that guy?" 
    It's part of the problem of being online is that we only see people's success of failure but almost never what got them to that point. Was he having a really tuff day and after fighting of the urge many times he eventually fell? Or maybe he even got back up and kept going. Either way we tend to focus on the success and failure, even though the fight is what really matters.

    I believe this post was meant to bring to light the fact that the stage each one of us are at isn't the main point it's the fact that we are all making progress together. So to both the people that are saying how much better life gets and the people who feel down from those posts remember that we are all in this together, One Day At A Time!

    As said before progress is the key. A guy that is at the point that going back is a no-option is just at a different level than the guy that is now only masturbating x times a week instead of what he used to. But both of these people are still making progress. If you keep on going, then no matter what your streak is, your just like the next guy. As a chizuk we should all remember that with progress life gets easier and better.

Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!

@jewizard21 my response was meant with the same constructive criticism as the   original post. These feelings are wrong and as you point out each individual should take note of his own progress. But being hurt from someone else’s success is antithetical to torah values and goes against the grain of what we all are trying to achieve here; namely self improvement. 

I understood amevakesh's point a bit differently, though it's certainly true that progress is always progress.

Correct me if I'm wrong amevakesh, but it seemed to me that you were differentiating between 1) success in establishing acting out as off-limits, and 2) finding that one's urges are diminished and other beneftis. And that while achieving #1 is very much in one's power through hard work etc, #2 is a gift from Hashem.

Therefore one should be sensitive in the way that he talks about #2, because the next guy may have struggled with all his might and achieved #1, but found that he has not been gifted with a let up of urges etc.

If this were a forum about getting better at basketball, and the guys who were 6 and a half feet tall were talking about how ever since they learnt basic dunking technique it's just so easy, it might be a little insensitive to the rest of us who may eventually manage to make a shot but will never dunk, both of us for reasons outside of our control.

amevakes's post was written with daykanus and more nuance than this one. So if what I'm writing makes his post sound a little different than how you first heard it I recommend going back and reading his post again. 

Simchastorah, you nailed it! What took me a whole long Megillah to write, you did in a few short sentences. Thank you!

I would make a distinction between posting about yourself--on your own thread (which also needs sensitivity) and posting to another person with the magical answers. That's what I thought Amevakesh was referring to with "well meaning comments" ie it was in response to someone.

Kol Tov

There’s nothing in @amevakesh’s comments below which reflects your sentiment about posting a reply in disagreement on someone else’s thread. What makes this forum so invaluable is that it allows for the dialogue to flesh out the relevant issues.Nothing is meant to be taken personal and everything is letoeles. 
I merely expressed a different perspective from my vantage point. Not necessarily a magical answer, but something to be considered. Personally I have no objection to someone posting an opposing opinion on my thread and accept it as part of the free exchange of ideas. Suggesting that there is no basis for hurt feelings was merely inviting introspection and behavior modification. It was made with the best of intentions and merely expresses my understanding of the torah perspective. I may indeed be wrong, but not for expressing my opinion

livingagain wrote on 26 Jan 2025 19:48:

My Brother, I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise. My comment was not specifically in response to your post. It wasn't about opposition either. Was just considering that it may come across differently when it is written about me for me or for someone else.

Kol Tov

I see my original post was a little misunderstood by some, so I wanted to clarify. My point wasn't to lecture anyone on what to post or not. My point was an attempt at clarifying what the essence of growth is. It was prompted by some of my dear friends , who are fighting a heroic, successful battle of staying clean, yet they feel like they aren't growing because they don't feel cleaner on the inside. To this, I responded with, what I feel is the essence of growth. To quote Rabbeinu Eerie Shlita " I'm totally at peace with the fact that I have urges and I have to hold back. It's just not an option. Period. The urges don't define me. My choices do. Urges are not a sin." One can still have urges, but as long as it's not an option he's growing.

An additional point. Growth that is predicated on the clean feeling, by it's very nature, isn't as essential as when it's based on making it a non option. As human beings, we are prone to emotional mood swings. The cleanliness we feel today may be gone tomorrow. Additionally, an unexpected scenario that one wasn't well prepared for, can much easier knock a guy off his feet if his cleanliness is based on his feelings, rather then if he's made indulging in lust a non option. Just one guys opinion.

I do not think I am roiy to explain Harav Amevakesh Shlita.


I can only add my perspective.
When someone posts that things have gotten easier that may provide some hope to others that they will hopefully also get to such a point. That being said, As Simchas Torah said, it is a gift from Hashem and should be recognized as such. People should know that  since it a gift from Hashem there is no guarantee that someone else will be zoche to the same matana.
I think there might be a distinction between reporting that things are getting easier and saying things that many can not relate to. For example, some have posted things like "Women who pass in the street are now no more attractive then a nice car or flower". From my perspective (and a very small one at that) this is not inspiring because anyone who says that must be an angel! I can not relate to angels.

I do not for a second doubt that they really feel that way. I am just not sure if if it is inspiring others the way they intend to. Again from my perspective only, I can not relate to that not can I imagine ever getting to such a level where women are like nice cars., 

However I was talking recently to someone who posted like that and he told me that he was so excited on reaching his milestone that he really felt like  he had conquered the world but after a while it started setting in that even thought he really thought so in his euphoria it was not really what he felt.

Just my small opinion.