rebakiva wrote on 02 Dec 2024 02:43:

Reb Akiva, I love love love what you wrote here.

I actually recently had this conversation with my wife (after answering “amen” to her birchas hashachar on a car ride that we could have used to shmooze.)

It struck me for the first time what a beautiful bracha  שעשני כרצונו really was. 

Every single day, Jewish women wake up and declare to Hashem and more importantly, to themselves, that Hashem made me exactly as I need to be!

What an amazing affirmation of faith! Imagine ingraining that every day for years and decades! I looked at my wife and I finally understood her unshakable faith and her complete ease with her life. She has trained herself for years to be OKAY with the way she is and the way things are.

And I thought to myself, I’m jealous! Why wasn’t I brought up with such a treasure? Why don’t men say to themselves every day, שעשני כרצונו — He made me the perfect way I’m meant to be! Why is it a gender thing? (Kind of like a reverse open orthodoxy gripe). And more importantly, where else in the entire nusach hatefillah do men have an opportunity to express this idea? To ACCEPT the Will of Hashem in our lives?

And now to your actual point, Reb Akiva. Accepting, is vvvvverrrrryy different from davening. When we talk about davening, we talk about asking for stuff, for lack of any better way of saying it.

What you’re saying is beautiful, and I’m all for it, but it would require a new nusach hatefila that unfortunately the anshei kenesses hagedolah have not bequeathed to us. 

Perhaps a gadol out there can pen a Testament of Acceptance that people can say and plug and play their preferred act of acceptance. I love this concept, thanks Reb Akiva.

amevakesh wrote on 01 Dec 2024 22:45:

There is no rule on this. You can daven based on how you feel.  Either way ask hashem to hold your hand and walk with you through the pain.  

thinking of you
vehkam 

Bennyh wrote on 02 Dec 2024 02:48:

Do we ever stop Daveening?
We say the same shmone esrey 3 times a day, 300 times a year, for 70ish years. 
My calculator says that's 63,000 times. 

Bennyh wrote on 02 Dec 2024 03:02:

This is a topic that’s incredibly personal and sensitive, and I’m not really going to chime in, aside from expressing my feeling of sympathy to those who are in situations that feel dead-ended and unchangeable. 

I thought I would share that for me, when I say the end of the Brocha of Al Hatzaddikim, and I ask to be included among those who have true Bitachon , I think about and Daven for serenity. The serenity to accept with complete comfort and equanimity those things that the Rebono Shel Olam will not change, no matter how desperately I beseech him to do so. I Daven to be able to rest my keppeleh on His shoulder with complete serenity and quietude. Bitachon means acceptance, among other things (such as trust, faithfulness, and security).
 Does this mean I stop Davening about those things? Still trying to figure it out myself. But one thing I know: I often spend a while on the words 
ועל חסדך הגדול באמת ובתמים נשעננו

And I find comfort therein, many times. 

מאן דבעי חיים

Thank you so much for the responses. Having the Oilam care about what lies behind the question makes the burden so much easier to bear. I would like to clarify my original question. As Benny picked up on (it takes a lot of intuition to read between the lines), I don't have a problem accepting the "no", if that's Hashem's plan for me. I'm just unclear whether he wants me to continue Davening באופן בקשה, or to accept it as a fact of life that's beyond my control. My Davening would then shift to one of שבח והודאה or in R"A's נוסח of "שעשני כרצונו". Then, in addition to thanking Him for all the things in my life that I'm truly blessed, I would be able to thank Him for my challenges as well (since I know it's to my benefit).  I don't think it's a question of feeling rejected by Hashem. I've never had that feeling. I'm generally a happy person, it's just that sometimes a feeling of sadness hits me. Not because of rejection, but because of the situation I'm in. It doesn't usually last to long, because I tell myself, that this is my נסיון in life, and in the overall picture, I have it pretty good. I'm blessed in so many other areas of life and if this is my challenge then so be it. When I go through these occasional bouts of sadness, I sometimes am in the mood of Davening, then I wonder, is there any point? Should I psych myself up into "request mode", knowing that in all likelihood, this ain't gonna change so quickly, or maybe not at all? In order to do so,  I need to allow a glimmer of hope into my heart. This carries the challenge of putting myself on an emotional roller coaster. Allowing hope into my heart, then realizing that nothing has changed is hard. Or do I approach Hashem with the mindset that this is my reality, please help me get through it, and I can even be grateful to Him for the complete package that he gave me. The blessings, the challenges, the ups and the downs.

To reframe the question in other words. We know that משה רבינו Davened 515 תפילות, then 'ה said רב לך and he stopped Davening. Did משה stop because 'ה told him to, or because he realized that his תפילה wouldn't be answered in the way he wanted? Had he known all along what the outcome would have been, would he have still Davened 515 times, or did he do so because 'ה wanted him to ask (maybe there's a certain level of a deep relationship, when a person makes himself vulnerable through requests that are important to him, regardless of the outcome)? I'm not asking from a place of pain, more like from a place of frustration and confusion. Hope that my lack of clarity is clear.

amevakesh wrote on 02 Dec 2024 18:30:

good Q, 
Hashem's plan for me​ is----To pray, he wants your prayers, THATS IT!  there is no such thing as "NO" at least מצדינו while living on earth.
we dont pray to GET stuff'
god could give it without you begging

we pray to show hashem that hes the only one to turn to, it brings out, shows and strengthen our בטחון
we pray cause it brings us closer to god

tfillah is a never ending thing 

@ no point can you say im stopping to pray cause obviously hashem doesnt want to give it,

hashem could change things and grant you @ any givin' time בזכות your tefillos

hashem told moshe STOP praying cause 1 more teffila im gonna be forced to let you in to isreal, and i hashen know its not a good thing.

cande

Don't the seforim say the ideal tefillah is solely davening for the tzar of the shechina? Now, I have no idea what it means for the shechina to be in tzar, but the gemara tells us it happens when a yid is in tzar. So I guess the answer is, if it still bothers you then there's a purpose/mitzvah/benefit to keep on davening. 

And since we're on GYE. I once heard Dov explain the 12 steps level of radical acceptance as not davening for things to be different. Just pure acceptance of Hashem's will. Like Bennyh and R' Akiva talked about, that can be a beautiful thing. It's clearly not the general way of life the Torah demands from us day to day - hence the mitzvah to daven in every eis tzarah.

So I think there's a type of acceptance that is not a stirah to tefillah. Meaning, iyun tefillah - waiting and expecting your tefillah to be answered is bad. Connecting to Hashem and recognizing that this your life is his will but also recognizing the situation is difficult for you, and asking for Hashem to change the situation is a different type of thing. It's acceptance of Hashem's will but at the same time a recognition of your own pain and Hashem's interest in you and your world.

Just some thoughts.

A Shout out to our friend Amevakesh!!

Mazel Tov on 500 Days!!!!


Here's to 5,000 and 50,000!!!

And from the many others that you have helped (including me)

Thank you!!!!

Thank you for bringing up this question. It is a mature and sensible one.
Peerhaps there is position to daven, not from a place of begging for a "yes", but from a place that says "Please Hashem, understand my need, whether you decide to provide it or not. Even if You choose to say 'no', at least know that I feel I need this".

138eagle wrote on 08 Dec 2024 21:26:

Oh wow! major mazel Tov!

I remember when you joined and eventually when we spoke [and later met], feels like yesterday. You taught me so much! Your a true inspiration and a real mentch.

Keep Rocking!!!!

Mazel tov on 500!!

Heres to a future of growth, success, and most of all, trucking!

With overflowing brotherly love,
Muttel

Thank you so much for your kind words, it really means a lot to me. As I reflect on my journey so far, I’m filled with הכרת הטוב to Hashem, and all of His שלוחים. I was going through my GYE contacts on ערב שבת, and I decided to see how many of them there were. I counted 28. 28 special people that I’m privileged to call friends. There is no doubt in my mind that without the friends that I made, I would not be here today. One of them helped me by pulling me out of the mud (we all know who that one is). Some of them reached out to me in friendship before I ever posted anything. Some of them inspired me greatly by teaching me how to be a good husband, even when it’s not so easy. Some of them helped me out through very sticky situations by giving me hours of their precious time. Some have helped me by listening to me venting and Kvetching when things get rough. If anyone ever got חיזוק from me, they should know that I feel that יותר ממה שהעשיר עושה עם העני, העני עושה עם העשיר. More precisely, I really feel that I’m not sure who the עני and who the עשיר is. הצד השוה שבכולם that I cherish and value each friend deeply, and your friendship means the world to me. Over the course of my journey, there have been times that my strength has been depleted, but 28 is כח! My dear friends you have given me כח to continue this fight, lifted me up when my spirits are down and for that I will forever be grateful.

GYE kinship is super special. But this is uncanny. I went through my contacts Friday and added the letters GYE after every friend to be able to count how many I had……

Amevakesh, getting to know you has been a balm on a parched soul……

Amevakesh was one of the first people that reached out to me when I first started. 
Finally I had someone to talk to and unburden. 100% understanding and 0% preaching or mussar. 
May Hashem bless you for all you have done for me and for others. Kol Haosek betzarchei tzibbur (is there a bigger tzorech than this?!!) 

Mazel tov on reaching 500, it really inspires me to see how long others are able to stay clean and gives me chizuk when I feel like giving up.
i haven't connected with you yet, but after reading some of your thread, it's on my to do list.
your amazing man!