What are your opinions on co-ed events, jobs that involve being around women, and lastly being friends with girls?

Jobs that involve women may have the advantage of desensitizing someone so that he will feel less attraction to women in any circumstance, but also has some risk of zera l'batela. Co-ed seems to desensitize less and have a greater risk (like 50/50). Being friends with girls seems to be a bad idea in most cases.

Maybe these situations are specific. Example -- depending on if a job is in a semi-secluded office (without yichud) or in a large store with female coworkers

I don't really understand the question. Whenever possible, avoid immodesty.

I don’t believe there is a concept of desensitization, when it comes to sexual promiscuity.

I don't really think it's a good idea. Men in general, at least for young adults like me, act completely different around girls. I noticed this a lot in my high school, and granted it was a secular highschool full of mostly goyim, but I think it still holds true. I was also at a shabbaton with some of my friends maybe a year ago in a modern orthodox environment, and it was coed, and I didn't just notice this phenomenon but actually something a little more inappropriate. One of my friends made one of the girls at the shabbaton, who was also in public school, feel uncomfortable by saying something inappropriate to her. I think he asked her about one of his friends "hitting it" (referring to one of his friends having intimate relations with her) if I remember the exact words correctly, and that made her very embarrassed which I do remember explicitly. This specific anecdote doesn't have to do with what you asked for and that's in regards to secular people but I think it shows maybe what could result after being in a coed environment long enough. When it comes to being "desensitized" I think all it would lead to is actually more promiscuity and desire for sexually worse things.

As an example to get my point across, many start watching p at first and then gradually move onto watching more "hardcore" stuff as time goes by as they get desensitized to the normal stuff. And I know you are referring to being around women who are dressed modestly but even with that, at least for me, if they look attractive I find it very hard not to look. And that comes obviously from desire, so I think even in a modest environment, you should avoid being around women and to minimize any interaction with them because I think it would lead to a downward spiral like in the example above even if it's a modest environment.

Just to add to what everyone else has been saying. Someone told me that the Ramban (Devarim 29 18) says that when someone fulfills one desire, it will create a desire to do more. You may get desensitized to this, but you will then have a drive for more.

Yissie wrote on 19 May 2022 18:06:

Talmud Sanhedrin 107A"There is a small limb, if a person starves it, it will be satisfied; but if he feeds it, it will be hungry."

yes, the ramban actually quotes that gemara....

Rabbi Manis Friedman gave in a video a single sentence that has served me well for years. The rule is often simply stated as, don't talk to girls. He said, 

"Don't talk to women any more than necessary." 

How does this play out? Female coworkers, I talk only briefly about work only. I almost never initiate conversation, and let it end quickly. Female friends I've had since (secular) high school? Well surprise, they never reach out. Those that have, it's been once per 1-3 years. Years. And I don't initiate. Turns out, any female friend you have is likely not as close as you thought. If she is, talk to a matchmaker, it's a sign! Haha. 

In other words, you don't have to be rude, in fact apparently they seem to like me more than other men even though we barely talk. Don't shut conversation down, but don't extend it either. Also, I make sure never to be alone in a room (say, the eating alone in the lunch room at work, and someone walks in) for more than a few seconds. Being aware of the more specific modesty laws like yichud, gives one a sensitivity worth having. Even though the door is wide open, finishing or leaving with my sandwich is between me and Hashem, and therefore I can move along genuinely and politely.

Maybe that's it. It's not about women. It's about sensitivity. Be polite, to women and to Hashem. And on mixed events, well, I tend to keep my eyes on the sky, and away from people in general. I went to a carnival a few years ago l to get overpriced popcorn and lose some carnival games, and it was okay. I don't seek such things. I also go to museums sometimes. Looking up makes you seem distant and perhaps thoughtful. That is, far too busy with your thoughts to draw any woman's attention.

“אל תרבה שיחה עם האשה… מכאן אמרו חכמים: כל המרבה שיחה עם האשה גורם רעה לעצמו ובוטל מדברי תורה וסופו יורש גהינם” (אבות א ה).

זה הכלל: “להתרחק מאוד מאוד”. רמב”ם איסורי ביאה כא. שו”ע אה”ע כא. קיצור שו”ע קנב ח.

צא ולמד מה קרה לשלומית בת דברי (ויקרא כד יא). רש”י: “שבחן של ישראל שפרסמה הכתוב לומר שהיא לבדה היתה זונה”” כלומר חטאה עם גוי” “שלומית – דהות פטפטה (=היתה מפטפטת): שלם עלך (=שלום עליך)” שלם עלך” שלם עליכון” מפטפטת בדברים שואלת בשלום הכל”. “בת דברי – דברנית” הייתה מדברת עם כל אדם” לפיכך קלקלה”.

Just too add my two cents, growing up around many people who have been in coeducational environments, and BH myself  being mainly in a separate one, out of say 40 boys who went to coed schools - 10 are totally not frum, 20 commit multiple issurim, that I know about, 5 try their best to avoid (but after 5 years they all have girlfriends, and have problems with shmiras enayim) and the last 5 don't initiate contact with girls, and are as far as I know doing the best - learning, davening, etc, even when noone is watching them.
(although this is anecdotal, i have a few freinds who have told me similar stories - its not conclusive but i would say, especially for people like us, who we know are struggling - don't risk it. These people are ostensibly desensitized but many of them don't act like it...)

I think the risks far outweigh the reward.



It's kind of like telling yourself, I'll have lots of delicious fattening food around so that it will lose it's appeal and I'll have an easier time dieting.



Do non-jews or secular folk who should be "desensitized" have less of an attraction to women?



There's no magic pill 

I think the best option is to be around non jewish coworkers so hopefully you feel like its harder to get too friendly 

Boruch24 wrote on 18 Aug 2022 00:31:

I've had non jewish coworkers...it's much easier to get friendly with them...

Lchaim Tovim wrote on 18 Aug 2022 14:21:

Yup , especially the girls who don’t have that built in guard around men the way frum people do.

i-man wrote on 18 Aug 2022 19:18:

I just re-read what I wrote, I made it sound way to innocuous. They're not just easier to get friendly with...They show skin, flirt, touch etc. and don't even view it as a relationship. It is a very difficult situation. Obviously very often there is no choice...