Hi, does anyone listen to Rabbi Yaron Reuven speeches, to help fight urges. I’ve found them to be very fear oriented, about the deepest depths of gehinnom and things of that nature. Personally fear doesn’t keep me away from porn. 
ive had more success interacting here, and with my accountability partner. What are your thoughts?

If that style doesn't help you, it doesn't seem that it's for you.

My understanding is that this type of “mussar” does not generally work in our generation. For most of us it just adds another layer of guilt and despair and is quite often counterproductive.

That’s exactly how I felt. Hopeless. Like in a deep hole, no way to escape. 

Hashem created the world with all its challenges.  He created us with our flaws and imperfections.   On the purpose of creation according to the mesilas yesharim was for hashem to be meitiv to us. And in order for us to enjoy the reward we have to deserve it.   If you are trapped and doomed to failure then there is really no purpose.   Accordingly for our generation it is important to always focus on the positive. Hashem loves  us with unconditional love and will help no matter what aveiros we have done.  We have to commit to change but we should never doubt that hashem will accept us and help us along.

Yaarov Reuven is your old school, fundamentalistish, fire & brimstone kav. If that works for you kol hakavod. I figure for many that it won't be helpful.

Larry Bird wrote on 06 Apr 2022 20:29:

It's funny you mention this. When I first heard his stuff I was so disturbed, I was going to email him. But I thought, hey maybe it helps others...
We all know how bad it is.
We need tools and support.
He is also very very black and white.
(Also, he says things that to me have no practical understanding. For example, if I remember correctly, he says that for the first 40 days the kelipos hold you down and therefor after 40 days the whole thing gets much easier... I never noticed anything different by the 40 day mark... )
Thanx for validating my feelings

gettingthere9 wrote on 08 Apr 2022 01:09:

Never heard the guy and have no desire to from what you've said. not everyone with the title Rabbi and access to a microphone needs to be listened to... (apologies to Reb Yisroel Salanter for borrowing his line). 

I do not know who he is, but i have heard from, and in the name of,  Gedolei Yisroel from various kehillos that the message we have to give people is that this is a gezeiras ha'dor and the focus should be on encouragement and learning techniques how to stop. Anything that causes guilt and or depression should be avoided. It has even been said that many people who are first reaching out for help are b'geder onais and should be told that - not to excuse future behavior, but to avoid focusing on tikun of past actions, and rather accepting one's self and moving forward. Teshuva for past actions? For now, learn how to stop or minimize these behaviors, and iyh when one is fully at peace with themselves and their sexuality and has been so for a few years, one can look back and see that he has been mekayem hilchos teshuva and move on.  Hashem is referred to as Avinu Av HaRachaman. Does not sound like He wants the almost entire generation of erliche yidden who do so much good in all areas to burn in gehenom....

Spot on.

bh

What i think people like him don't realize (surprisingly!) is that this is an addiction. Im not a doctor/psychologist but we all know this. you can't just stop! there's actually a video on GYE daily chizzuk where one of the rabbi's is asked about a tikkun for this and he says, "well the first thing is you have to stop, then you can fix it." so while what he is saying is true - don't look for a "tikkun" before you've found a way to actually stop doing it, hes quite wrong IMO that we can just stop! like that!

telling someone addicted that theyre going to heck, obvioulsy doesnt help and probably makes it worse because it increases anxiety.

my assumption is that these מאמרי חז"ל about the severity of this "sin" and the type of heck that's destined for you - all those statements were made in a time, and to a people of different nature which we have no recognition, it may have not been such an addiction, it may have been more of just a bad habit, that you can with some effort get over and make a purposeful 1 time decision to stop. mazal tov. hey, don't forget they didn't have access to p at their fingertips.

or equivalently, its directed to people who are just not addicted, whcih today (or at least amongst us) is the vast minority.

so for most of us, condemning and screaming and cursing etc doesn't work.

strategy, planning, positive relationships, knowledge, openness, that's what helps.

hatzlacha

Musser and Divray kvushin (Sharp Rhetoric) only has a place for the Emotionally and Psychologically healthy to bring them  to higher levels of yiras Shumayim if a person is Struggling with Base sadness and depression Musser does not serve any function

sleepy wrote on 22 May 2022 18:29:

bh

what i mean is what you described. you can't stop even if you want to. (which is 1 one of the 4 major signs of addiction, losing control, anyone here relate to losing control over their seeing p in the past)

whether its clinically an addiction or not I'm not qualified to say.

bichlal, "addicted" can lichorah be a very subtle and nuanced conversation. (theres, "on the spectrum," there's "almost on the spectrum" etc etc.)

there are people that quit being chain smokers for years just with ratzon.

point is usually you need a lot more than a simple decision to stop.

seems we all agree that some guy who has the name rabbi and has a mic and tells people to just stop or youd better stop or else doesn't help

Addiction is a clinical term that needs to be diagnosed by someone in the know. Many people present with addictive behaviors, but are not clinically addicts - and the treatment mehalech is different. When i found GYE, i was convinced i was an addict, and actually met with a potentiial SA sponsor. However i called Dov, and after a bit of speaking he told me, "You are not an addict; you have a bad case of yetzer hara. Get to work." And as they say, the rest is history....

To add to this discussion: the 12-steps has a certain definition of "addiction," and professionals who refer people to the 12 steps have that definition in mind when they diagnose a person as an addict. However, that definition matters mostly to someone who wants to join the 12-steps.

As far as official definitions, the closest criteria there is right now is one created by the World Health Organization for what they call "Compulsive sexual behavior disorder", and it includes 4 conditions that must all be met:

• 1) A persistent pattern of failure to control intense, repetitive sexual impulses or urges resulting in repetitive sexual behavior, manifested in one or more of the following:
  
  • Engaging in repetitive sexual behavior has become a central focus of the individual’s life to the point of neglecting health and personal care or other interests, activities and responsibilities.
  • The individual has made numerous unsuccessful efforts to control or significantly reduce repetitive sexual behavior.
  • The individual continues to engage in repetitive sexual behavior despite adverse consequences (e.g., marital conflict due to sexual behavior, financial or legal consequences, negative impact on health).
  • The person continues to engage in repetitive sexual behavior even when the individual derives little or no satisfaction from it.
• 2) The pattern of failure to control intense, repetitive sexual impulses or urges and resulting repetitive sexual behavior is manifested over an extended period of time (e.g., 6 months or more).
• 3) The pattern of failure to control intense, repetitive sexual impulses or urges and resulting repetitive sexual behavior is not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Manic Episode) or other medical condition and is not due to the effects of a substance or medication.
• 4) The pattern of repetitive sexual behavior results in marked distress or significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. Distress that is entirely related to moral judgments and disapproval about sexual impulses, urges, or behaviors is not sufficient to meet this requirement.

Here are some other details:


Additional Clinical Features

• Compulsive Sexual Behaviour Disorder may be expressed in a variety of behaviors, including sexual behavior with others, masturbation, use of pornography, cybersex (internet sex), telephone sex, and other forms of repetitive sexual behavior.
• Individuals with Compulsive Sexual Behaviour Disorder often engage in sexual behavior in response to feelings of depression, anxiety, boredom, loneliness, or other negative affective states. Although not diagnostically determinative, consideration of the relationship between emotional and behavioral cues and sexual behavior may be an important aspect of treatment planning.
• Individuals who make religious or moral judgments about their own sexual behavior or view it with disapproval, or who are concerned about the judgments and disapproval of others or about other potential consequences of their sexual behavior, may describe themselves as ‘sex addicts’ or describe their sexual behavior as ‘compulsive’ or using similar terms. In such cases, it is important to examine carefully whether such perceptions are only a result of internal or external judgments or potential consequences or whether there is evidence that impaired control over sexual impulses, urges, or behaviors and the other diagnostic requirements of Compulsive Sexual Behaviour Disorder are actually present.

Boundaries with Normality (Threshold)

• There is wide variation in the nature and frequency of individuals’ sexual thoughts, fantasies, impulses and behaviors. This diagnosis is only appropriate when the individual experiences intense, repetitive sexual impulses or urges that are experienced as irresistible or uncontrollable, leading to repetitive sexual behavior, and the pattern of repetitive sexual behavior results in marked distress or significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. Individuals with high levels of sexual interest and behavior (e.g., due to a high sex drive) who do not exhibit impaired control over their sexual behavior and significant distress or impairment in functioning should not be diagnosed with Compulsive Sexual Behaviour Disorder. The diagnosis should also not be assigned to describe high levels of sexual interest and behavior (e.g., masturbation) that are common among adolescents, even when this is associated with distress.
• Compulsive Sexual Behaviour Disorder should not be diagnosed based on distress related to moral judgments and disapproval about sexual impulses, urges, or behaviors that would otherwise not be considered to be indicative of psychopathology (e.g., a religious young man who believes that he should never masturbate; a person who is distressed about his homosexual attraction or behavior). Similarly, Compulsive Sexual Behaviour Disorder cannot be diagnosed based solely on distress related to real or feared social disapproval of sexual impulses or behaviors.
• Compulsive Sexual Behaviour Disorder should not be diagnosed based solely on relatively brief periods (e.g., up to several months) of increased sexual impulses, urges, and behaviors during transitions to contexts that involve increased availability of sexual outlets that previously did not exist (e.g., moving to a new city, a change in relationship status).