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TOPIC: There's nothing there 4835 Views

There's nothing there 25 Jul 2017 23:28 #317850

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I hesitate to put this is the "what works for me" section, because it's minimally effective for me, but I'll share my eitzah in case it helps others, or if people have insights to share.

When encountering someone on the street, I tell myself "There's nothing there", either in my head or softly to myself.  This is a message to myself that 1) the physical person I'm seeing is not "real", is not the essence of that person, 2) there's nothing really worth looking at to make me break my desire to guard my eyes.

As I said, I'm not able to make this really effective for myself, but there's something about that formula: "There's nothing there" that can help me put things in perspective.

Re: There's nothing there 25 Jul 2017 23:38 #317851

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Thank you for sharing! In my experience, the opposite works. I say to my self: "God, she's very pretty and i would love to look at her, see her naked and have sex with her. I cant control my lust. God, please take it away from me. I want to do Your will not my will because my will leads me to all the wrong places. Please God please remove the lust from me. I surrender, I put up my hands and I am walking away"
I am happy to speak on the phone. Please email me at dms1234ongye@gmail.com

My name is Daniel, I go to face to face meetings and I work the 12 steps with a sponsor. 

Re: There's nothing there 26 Jul 2017 01:34 #317853

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I've reminded myself that there is nothing there for me. That has helped me. 
Much Hatzlacha!

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--"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking (or lusting), you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic (or sexaholic)." AA Big Book P. 45. Parenthesis added.
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Re: There's nothing there 26 Jul 2017 01:54 #317854

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"It's just none of my business" is what I say.
I "think" that is what serenity is saying when he writes "that there is nothing there for me" the emphasis is on "for me"

Whatever you do I believe strongly that the idea of not dwelling on the sight has to be quick. A long shmuz/tefillah gets me thinking/focusing  too long on the forbidden and its counter - productive.
Unless, I have already gone for the bait/obsessing and then its wise to daven for her 

Re: There's nothing there 26 Jul 2017 04:08 #317858

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Im trying for the last 5 months not to look at any women on the street, i keep my eyes down to the floor, but in any case, for example when i drive, if i encounter a good looking lady, im thinking that she is just like me, a regular human being, and when i look at myself in the mirror i dont see anything exciting, no trigger at all, same there, its just a Dimyen which is being triggered by my YH, its really nothing there, just a little bit skin, and that shouldn't get me out of control and mess with my success... and of course, the entire ויכוח shouldn’t take more then 2 seconds, just stop thinking about what you just sew and what you decided to do.
My email:jacdoja@gmail.com
My threads: my long נסיעה of almost 30 years ~ My Book of Business ~ My Upcoming Dilemma

להטות לבבנו אליו ללכת בכל דרכיו ולשמר מצותיו וחקיו ומשפטיו אשר צוה את אבתינו
כי עיקר מציאות האדם בעה"ז הוא רק לקיים מצות ולעמד בניסיון,  והנאות העולם אין ראוי שיהו לו אלא לעזר ולסיוע בלבד לשיהיה לו נחת רוח ויישוב הדעת למען יוכל לפנות לבו אל העבודה הזאת מסילת ישרים

Re: There's nothing there 26 Jul 2017 17:00 #317878

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Bs"d
My 2 cents:
After looking away I think to myself:

"I am not interested to look. period. I know that I FEEL a strong desire to look & lust after her, but I now also know the secret that this desire is not what I want. It's just a feeling inside me, but it's not ME. I can't do anything to get rid of this feeling, only G-d can take it away from me, but I will do what I want not what my lust wants"

Then I say the most powerful word: "Next!"

Re: There's nothing there 26 Jul 2017 19:48 #317887

"Don't fight it"
Should women dress so attractive-provocative-etc'...?   well frankly no-one asked my opinion. I simply had to get used to it, because "that's how it is".

The internal battle to no look, is so draining and difficult, that it in itself makes it harder to be shomer einayim. I have found that by relaxing my approach to the whole topic, my own part in it (not looking) got much easier.

FYI, in the past i was a big קנעי about tznius, and how those women make my life a misery. i blamed them for making even a simple trip to the store, so agonizing!!    I fought realy hard to not look, and won, but it was hard work and draining.      They i realized that "surrender" made it all a peice of cake.  I accepted that there will forever be "beauty on the street", and i will simply not "taste" from the shmorgezboard of eye-candy.   We will coexist like arabs-jews, ha ha ha.       [I condemn even the slightest infringment on hilchos tznius, but if they don't listen to rabanim, than no-one cares about my opinion in it, so why bother "screaming" at them in my head!)

Re: There's nothing there 26 Jul 2017 20:13 #317895

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New Person wrote on 26 Jul 2017 17:00:
Bs"d
My 2 cents:
After looking away I think to myself:

"I am not interested to look. period. I know that I FEEL a strong desire to look & lust after her, but I now also know the secret that this desire is not what I want. It's just a feeling inside me, but it's not ME. I can't do anything to get rid of this feeling, only G-d can take it away from me, but I will do what I want not what my lust wants"

Then I say the most powerful word: "Next!"

Well Said!!!! so true!!
My email:jacdoja@gmail.com
My threads: my long נסיעה of almost 30 years ~ My Book of Business ~ My Upcoming Dilemma

להטות לבבנו אליו ללכת בכל דרכיו ולשמר מצותיו וחקיו ומשפטיו אשר צוה את אבתינו
כי עיקר מציאות האדם בעה"ז הוא רק לקיים מצות ולעמד בניסיון,  והנאות העולם אין ראוי שיהו לו אלא לעזר ולסיוע בלבד לשיהיה לו נחת רוח ויישוב הדעת למען יוכל לפנות לבו אל העבודה הזאת מסילת ישרים

Re: There's nothing there 26 Jul 2017 20:18 #317897

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Old Timer wrote on 26 Jul 2017 19:48:
"Don't fight it"
Should women dress so attractive-provocative-etc'...?   well frankly no-one asked my opinion. I simply had to get used to it, because "that's how it is".

The internal battle to no look, is so draining and difficult, that it in itself makes it harder to be shomer einayim. I have found that by relaxing my approach to the whole topic, my own part in it (not looking) got much easier.


[p]FYI, in the past i was a big קנעי about tznius, and how those women make my life a misery. i blamed them for making even a simple trip to the store, so agonizing!!    I fought realy hard to not look, and won, but it was hard work and draining.      They i realized that "surrender" made it all a peice of cake.  I accepted that there will forever be "beauty on the street", and i will simply not "taste" from the shmorgezboard of eye-candy.   We will coexist like arabs-jews, ha ha ha.       [I condemn even the slightest infringment on hilchos tznius, but if they don't listen to rabanim, than no-one cares about my opinion in it, so why bother "screaming" at them in my head!)[/p]

still not right from them, for whom are they dressing like that? for us? we are not interested in them! period... for them self's, let them dress like this at home, why on the street? 
i dont get it... and its not fair, we are struggling for nothing, (for nothing? no, its a lot, every time we are not giving in, we dont look after this unfair dressed women we get a huge chunk up there.... )
My email:jacdoja@gmail.com
My threads: my long נסיעה of almost 30 years ~ My Book of Business ~ My Upcoming Dilemma

להטות לבבנו אליו ללכת בכל דרכיו ולשמר מצותיו וחקיו ומשפטיו אשר צוה את אבתינו
כי עיקר מציאות האדם בעה"ז הוא רק לקיים מצות ולעמד בניסיון,  והנאות העולם אין ראוי שיהו לו אלא לעזר ולסיוע בלבד לשיהיה לו נחת רוח ויישוב הדעת למען יוכל לפנות לבו אל העבודה הזאת מסילת ישרים
Last Edit: 26 Jul 2017 20:19 by Shivisi_Hashem.

Re: There's nothing there 26 Jul 2017 21:09 #317905

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Shivisi_Hashem wrote on 26 Jul 2017 20:18:



i dont get it... and its not fair, we are struggling for nothing, (for nothing? no, its a lot, every time we are not giving in, we dont look after this unfair dressed women we get a huge chunk up there.... )

Dittos! There's got to be a good reason why we have this struggle and in a very challenging time. Let's take advantage of the opportunity to accomplish.

Re: There's nothing there 26 Jul 2017 21:25 #317907

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Shivisi_Hashem wrote on 26 Jul 2017 20:18:

Old Timer wrote on 26 Jul 2017 19:48:
"Don't fight it"
Should women dress so attractive-provocative-etc'...?   well frankly no-one asked my opinion. I simply had to get used to it, because "that's how it is".

The internal battle to no look, is so draining and difficult, that it in itself makes it harder to be shomer einayim. I have found that by relaxing my approach to the whole topic, my own part in it (not looking) got much easier.



[p]FYI, in the past i was a big קנעי about tznius, and how those women make my life a misery. i blamed them for making even a simple trip to the store, so agonizing!!    I fought realy hard to not look, and won, but it was hard work and draining.      They i realized that "surrender" made it all a peice of cake.  I accepted that there will forever be "beauty on the street", and i will simply not "taste" from the shmorgezboard of eye-candy.   We will coexist like arabs-jews, ha ha ha.       [I condemn even the slightest infringment on hilchos tznius, but if they don't listen to rabanim, than no-one cares about my opinion in it, so why bother "screaming" at them in my head!)[/p]

still not right from them, for whom are they dressing like that? for us? we are not interested in them! period... for them self's, let them dress like this at home, why on the street? 
i dont get it... and its not fair, we are struggling for nothing, (for nothing? no, its a lot, every time we are not giving in, we dont look after this unfair dressed women we get a huge chunk up there.... )

Are you serious in your thoughts?
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

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Re: There's nothing there 24 Aug 2017 03:03 #319249

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To help me understand that I'm sick and that I'm taking a beautiful creation of HaShem, a human being, and warping that reality, I like to imagine that she is defecating. I know it's disgusting but it helps me realize that she and I are practically the same except for the different tools that Hashem gave us. Even goyim were given tools with which to serve Hashem and it's their problem they're completely off the derech (ours as well since we need to be a light to the nations). Of course I don't go into too much detail because otherwise I will start imaging her private parts. So just some stuff coming of the direction my eyes always seems to be so attracted to. 

yehonatan

Re: There's nothing there 24 Aug 2017 15:02 #319268

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Shivisi_Hashem wrote on 26 Jul 2017 20:18:

Old Timer wrote on 26 Jul 2017 19:48:
"Don't fight it"
Should women dress so attractive-provocative-etc'...?   well frankly no-one asked my opinion. I simply had to get used to it, because "that's how it is".

The internal battle to no look, is so draining and difficult, that it in itself makes it harder to be shomer einayim. I have found that by relaxing my approach to the whole topic, my own part in it (not looking) got much easier.



[p]FYI, in the past i was a big קנעי about tznius, and how those women make my life a misery. i blamed them for making even a simple trip to the store, so agonizing!!    I fought realy hard to not look, and won, but it was hard work and draining.      They i realized that "surrender" made it all a peice of cake.  I accepted that there will forever be "beauty on the street", and i will simply not "taste" from the shmorgezboard of eye-candy.   We will coexist like arabs-jews, ha ha ha.       [I condemn even the slightest infringment on hilchos tznius, but if they don't listen to rabanim, than no-one cares about my opinion in it, so why bother "screaming" at them in my head!)[/p]

still not right from them, for whom are they dressing like that? for us? we are not interested in them! period... for them self's, let them dress like this at home, why on the street? 
i dont get it... and its not fair, we are struggling for nothing, (for nothing? no, its a lot, every time we are not giving in, we dont look after this unfair dressed women we get a huge chunk up there.... )

just imagine that they have a big nisayon when they dress just as big as you have a nisayon to look, they are both yetzer hurahs, so just like you don't blame yourself for having a nisayon you can't blame them for having a nisayon.
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