Thank you lomed,      very much. Your words are very deep and true.

Thank you Markz,    short sweet and strait to the point. 


I couldn't understand why i was talking to thee walls over here for so long, thank yo for pointing out my weaknesses and flaws (you guys are saving me paperwork in step 6-7 )


With regard to abstinance, anyone reading these posts should bear in mind that the issue is deep and complicated, and intended for somone who's whole connection to his wife is "like a hungry animal". I't complicated....   And not an integral part of any SA stepwork. With all the sponsors i had, i was told that i accomplished the end-result of abstinance, without abstaining. 

However, bear in mind that although abstinence limits one from "releasing" his urges (keeping it PG), it still allows him the pleasure of touch,     the pleasure of intimate conversation with the other gender,   the blessed opportunity to fall in love with their spouse (true love),     the pleasure of visually enjoying his spouses beauty,      some in SA even have "almost" complete marital relations,       married and abstaining is easier than the single guys.  

I am awed by your comment on the 90 day chart  lomed,   thank you!     The single guys here are an inspiration for me.

For me the fact the sex is optional is an integral part of my recovery. If the only way i can stay sober is that i have sex with my wife, i am in danger, that when we cant have it i may loose my sobriety. verses if my sobriety is independent to sex with wife, then i have a chance to recover from being dependent on sex in any form.

Maybe there was a time that also for me sex was optional, but life is always changing, and the amount of time I spend on working the program has steadily been on a decline (especially sponsorship and groups).  So the "peacekeeping" force that my program was downgraded to, didn't stand a chance when the "onslaught" came (of worries-problems-צרות  not lust).    I was clean for long terms, because my situation wasn't so bad. The quality of my stepwork was good enough for a married guy with a monthly outlet. I should have spent more time dealing with my fealings///

Does that mean that i must ALWAYS invest countless hours in stepwork, so that i will ALWAYS be ready for the onset of WW3? I think that's stupid (to quote our President).                    But when i do have issues, it sounds reasonable to force myself to "do more" for my recovery-sobriety.

.... i am sitting down now to start writing my feeling on paper (stepwork)

This thread is getting interesting
Lomed I love your recovery 
if I may give some unsolicited advice Old Timer I think the cholent has been on the heat too long and shabbos was over a day or two already. The pot needs cleaning and a new cholent needs to be prepared.
Most importantly I saw no powerlessness in your step one and I see no surrender in your step 3
much hatzlocha!

Markz wrote on 31 Jul 2017 16:12:

I haven't really been following the drama here, but once I saw this I felt compelled to post. I am actively single right now (rejecting all offers). I'm also sober. I don't usually share my sobriety date, but for this I will. I am currently sober for 8 months 3 weeks and 3 days. Sex is 100% optional. I am fully willing to abstain from sex for the rest of my life, if that's what my Higher Power wants. And I don't crave sex either. In fact, the only time that I really ever crave sex is after I relapse and I act out in my bottom-line behavior. From time to time I feel triggered, but I surrender. My Higher Power gives me everything that I need. There's nothing that I need that I can't get from Him. I, to say the least, am not suffering from any "hunger pains" of the sort.

Shlomo24 wrote on 31 Jul 2017 23:55:

So "Have an easy fast" now has a gye connotation, thanks Shlomo

I've been fasting for a helluva long time if that's the case.

GrowStrong wrote

“I may give some unsolicited advice Old Timer I think…”        Just because I am too cheap to pay you a salary, never said I am not waiting to hear it. The best thing that can come out of my posts, are finding the flaws and weak spots in my “journey of recovery”.

“Most importantly I saw no powerlessness in your step one and I see no surrender in your step 3”

                Powerless for me, means that there is a power much greater than me, and why should I stubbornly insist on doing it the hard way! The כוחות Hashem gave me, only bring out half-baked results. In the last 10 years, I never built any lasting recovery on the basis of “rock bottom” (it only worked for me on a short term basis).                 

               Surrender: Is there something that I had to surrender?!?   For years my life has been in a steady decline, deterioration is maybe a more accurate term, I have nothing more left to live for other than Hashem’s will from me. I didn’t do any deep חשבון הנפש before writing this post, but I am pretty sure that there is almost nothing left in my life for me to surrender.    Unless you include in the concept, ”turning my life over…. i.e. תפילה”. Which now strikes me as something lacking, big time.  No I am not referring to better כוונה בשמונה עשרה, I am referring to prayer as a solution and response, just like anyone else in the program.          Can it be said that I am doing step 2, and forgot step 3?

The following thoughts flashed through my brain, and I think there will be a benefit in sharing on the forum how I “lie to myself”. Here goes….      In defense, if we truly understand-believe-trust that whatever hashem does for us is “better like that, good, great, splendid”. There should never be a topic that we need to pray over. We should be saying thank you all day long, and that is it! I’m not making this up, R Arush preaches it for years! More so, I once saw in ספר שומרי אמונים, במאמר השגחה פרטית, פרק ד that he quotes from the baal shem tov, a segula for all tzaros, don’t even daven about it just believe 100% that ALSO this is good. He adds there that he himself uses it countless times, and “it works like a charm”.  For a long time I had my litzish reservations about this, how can it be? There is a mitzvah מדאורייתא to daven when tzaros come? But when I learnt to identify that there is nothing bad in my life, than I finally understood it.

ועוד כתבו בשם הבעש"ט ז"ל שאם האדם ח"ו באיזה צרה שלא תבא ח"ו, אז הסגולה שלא יתפלל כלום על צרותיו בעת ההיא רק יחזק לבבו לה' מאוד בבטחון לאלוקיו, ואז ישראל נושע בה' עכ"ד
      ...and this is my excuse for not spending any time to TRULY daven (turining to his power alone, and stopping to respond with my meager powers), or even to thank him on a daily basis for all the "good".            lame excuse!     תירוצים תירוצים תירוצים !!!

Shlomo24 wrote on 01 Aug 2017 03:02:

1st time I heard 24 hours is hell-luva